Vandals have smashed and overturned about 40 gravestones in the Saint Aubert Commonwealth cemetery [a World War 1 cemetery housing the graves of New Zealand, British and Canadian troops] in northern France.

To quote a French citizen interviewed on France 2 TV today: "This is disgusting, the people buried there came to save and liberate us."

When is this supposed to stop?

This is a sad event. And I do personally believe that most of the frenchs are ashamed.

Let's just hope the police will find the culprit and bring him to justice.

But, you know, idiocy knows no frontier...

I am pretty sure the vast majority of the frenchs will agree with the comment you quoted ("This is disgusting, the people buried there came to save and liberate us.")

Yours. :)

Indeed, it's very sad.
I really would like to hear one of the guys able of such thing, and what reasons he can have to perform such a terrible profanation.

Oh come on now. It's just people who are very upset at the New Zealand and Canadian government's foriegn poilcies. They are merely expressing their opinions as people who have rights to free speech are known to do. Just think of this as no different than burning a McDonalds. If you must persist in making a big ado over this, then you would be advised to focus your attention on the Americans.

If you are unsure of how to establish a connection, please look up in the new updated "Le Monde's Guide to Blaming it on the Americans or Zionists (you know, them Jews)". Oui, the July 2003 edition also has the lastest technological breakthroughs, such as "How to blame the Americans for common votive candle mishaps in the home" and "You didn't lose your car keys, the Yankies came in last night and stole them... and the frikken remote too!"

What rubbish!
Are you a psychic that you know these peoples' motives?
Is every act of vandalism or violence politically motivated?
This reflects the standard of your analysis generally.

Good work Luther. You didn't suggest that maybe the French media had created a climate of racism encouraging people to take blind attacks at anything remotely related to... Well, like this site does. No way could that ever happen. The French media has thousands of educated professionals, millions of readers and budgets of billions of Euros, while PaveFance has how many Carine? One. That is why we must hold Pave France to the highest journalistic standard there are. Even higher! Because of the billions, err... many people Carine is influencing through out the world this site needs to come under government control. Perhaps a new special department headquartered in Paris itself, maybe an entire ministry. Good work Luther. We are proud of you. France is proud of you. And I am proud of you.

You're laying the sarcasm on a bit thick.

Are you suggesting French media had created a climate of racism encouraging people to take blind attacks at anything remotely related to (US?)?

Moi? I never typed such a thing. And why would I? How could it even be possible to make that connection from such a vague reference? No one could even believe such a thing even when reading it directly stated in your postingage. Let me assure you such a thing is completely and totally absurd. Impossible! Besides, your time would be better well spent blaming the Americans.

Seriously, how could anyone think such a thing? Are French writers being arrested and tried for merely writing novels? No. Well, not that many anyway. To think that one day French writers would be hiding in a safe house somewhere in England with Salmon Rushdie, playing gin rummy for years on end... that is simply absurd mon ami. It will never happen. And it is impossible for it to ever happen. So, do not even for a moment think otherwise. I don't know how many times you must be told this but, you would be advised to blame the Americans.

Especially that Rumsfeld. Oui, extra points for refering to Donald Rumsfeld in the last sentence. But non for Cheney, as Le Mond's cartoonists can't do a good Cheney yet.

Based on political cartoons and articles that appear in French newspapers, I'd say a very anti-American climate has been encouraged.

I like France and the French. I would not visit France now, even if the trip were free. Not because I want to boycott France (I don't), but because I don't feel safe going there. If I were Jewish I'd feel this way even more.

This is too bad because I'm sure most French people wouldn't bother me at all if they knew I was American. However, there's always the thought in the back of your mind that it only takes one nut to ruin your entire trip. I'd always be on edge wherever I went.

So, spending the travel dollars elsewhere this year. Accuse me of paranoia. That's ok. I'll stop being paranoid when I stop seeing anti-American trash printed in your mainstream, and government funded, press.

I imagine some who read this, as well as the daily French papers, will not agree a climate of anti-Americanism is encouraged. Part of the problem is that it's become so accepted that it doesn't seem all that bad. (It's not just France, btw., I realize this.)

Hi Chris,

I'd say, that indeed, our press wasn't very pro-american. However, as some american press manipulated people in the US in order to make the anti-french feeling growing, the French medias didn't encourage any boycott.
Our "Sandwich Americain" was not renamed. The californian wines were not thrown to any river, and no collect of money were organized in order to lobby against the US.

If you come to visit France , you have really a little , little probability to meet someone that would "attack" you on the subject of the French-American relatinoship.
At worst, you could find someone that would like to speak and take a drink with you,in order to have a point of view from an american.

"I'd say a very anti-American climate has been encouraged"
If by encouraging a very anti-American climate, you mean informing the frenchs of the institutional french bashing which became a national sport in your country... Well, I would say yes.

Anyway, that doesn't justify the desecration. The man who did that :
1- is probably an idiot ;
2- felt probably powerless reading and hearing all the bad things you americans are telling about us : so he did what he thought would be the smartest thing to do.

There are so many ways to embarrass you without having to commit such disgraceful act : what about rebaptizing the "american pool game" into something like... mmmh... I don't know... the "freedom pool game"? ;)

Yours.

Ooops, pardon Marc... J'avais pas lu ton allusion aux freedom fries : pas copié, promis!

:)

I agree, the average French person sees this as disgusting. But we read Le Monde now; we know this is not happening in a vacuum...

Not buying a French product is in no way an equivalent to the anti-American trash being peddled in your press. If anything, it is a response..

Actually, my coleagues and I travel to France from time to time. I will be behind enemy lines next month. My co-worker was there in the weeks leading up to the war, when the French press was making their last ditch effort to keep Saddam in power. The only comment he heard? "You American? Yes? Go kick their fucking asses!"

I think the treatment of French products has actually been under-represented in the media. Since it started, the media has tried to downplay it and say that it's over.
For example, a lot of restaurants removed all French wines from their menus. So far as I can tell, they have not been returned.
That was not covered in the media.

My My My lookie here at all the fan mail. My dear Frenchmen please do not adopt the expression of coyness. You all read Le Monde you all read Liberte, You all watch the governments state financed TV2. You all are with blaim! Do not enter in this room saying "this is discraceful accounting of our past allies' we see the hypocricy in this . If you thought this was a shameful act their would be picketers around the French newspapers and media. the hell with you.

Any 'French Bashing' here was a *result* of the anti-Americanism in France. The anti-Americanism expressed in the French media isn't recent. It has been going on for quite some time. Not very many here had paid much attention to it until recently.

We don't have government supported media the same way some European countries do. It makes a big difference when a government sponsored entity suppports the anti-US trash I've read.

About having a drink and expressing the US point of view? As evidenced on this board, some have their minds so made up you can't "confuse" them with the facts. They already know it all, even when shown to not be as well read as they like to believe. So, why bother?

I appreciate the French who have gone out of their way to set up blogs like this. It is because of this I know what I've read in your papers doesn't represent the entirety of French opinion.

[quote] Our "Sandwich Americain" was not renamed. The californian wines were not thrown to any river, and no collect of money were organized in order to lobby against the US. [/quote]

Good. Now try not to burn the Us flag in public in a so-called "peace procession", if u can..

Good. Now try not to burn the Us flag in public in a so-called "peace procession", if u can..

Do you speak about this incident committed by pro-palestinian arabs living in France ?
You are not in the right forum if you want to speak to them.

French textbooks use America as an example of an anti-Democratic society. The French teach their children at a tender age to abandon the evidence of Normandy. In their social studies America is an Empire nothing more. Someone tell me again how american media caused this loss of american tourists?

"The French teach their children at a tender age to abandon the evidence of Normandy."
At least, they know , contrary to US children, where is Normandy.

"French textbooks use America as an example of an anti-Democratic society"
As Carine would say, give your sources.

Mayeau...
It sound s like French...
Don't you have a Quebecian ancestor , who would have himself a French ancestor, coming from a region named "La Vendee" ?

"French textbooks use America as an example of an anti-Democratic society"
As Carine would say, give your sources.

L'hôpital qui se fout de la charité !

Marc Levis who never ever gives sources wants sources.

Okay, here we go.

To keep it quick and simple, and since I don't have Revel's book with me right now, I will quote an abridged version (due to Mr. Levis low level of tolerance towards French citizens with their eyes wide open to what's happening in their country) from a French blog (Thanks to the Frogman), but you can go and check yourself in the book mentionned below:

I'd like to offer the following passage of the Vincent Teacher's book published by Bordas, as quoted by Jean-François Revel in his book "The Useless Knowledge" (Chapter XI "The treachery of the teachers" - Ed. Grasset).

Be advised that the teacher's book is nothing less than the manual destined to guide the teachers, civil servants of the Ministry of Education, in their duty.

« "We'll demonstrate that there are two camps in the world:
- One is imperialist and antidemocratic (USA)
- The other is anti-imperialist and democratic (USSR),

and we'll precise their goals:
- World domination by crushing the anti-imperialist camp (USA)
- Struggle against imperialism and fascism, reinforcement of democracy (USSR)." »

I'm going to tell you when this book was published.

1980.

1-9-8-0.

This is a literal translation. The author really put USA and USSR between parentheses. Probably to make sure that no teacher slips up, fairly innocently or by straight duplicity I guess. You know how those enemies of the People are.

The real information in your post is the Date : 1980 . 1-9-8-0 !!! as you say...

It was the period just before the election of President Miterrand, who brought with him communists ministers to the government.
I remember the US press fearing that Russian tanks would march towards Paris.... So laughable.
Anyway, the fact that at this time one " guidebook" was pro-socialo-communist doesn't impress me much. It's not new.

Since have changed since this time...
Personnaly , I was rather taught how the americans won the war, rebuilt Europe through Marshall plan, I was also tought about Goulags in Russia, the totalitarism and the poverty in this country.

Time is passing by, you know.

Personnaly , I was rather taught how the americans won the war, rebuilt Europe through Marshall plan, I was also tought about Goulags in Russia, the totalitarism and the poverty in this country.

Time is passing by, you know.

Indeed, Marc, that's why they've just take the Marshall plan out of History classes and that some teachers cannot and refuse to teach the shoah in some parts of France.
Instead, I'd rather say that some things never change.

And what to say about Economics classes, where they can repeat and repeat and repeat again and again that globalization is bad bad bad. Where teachers argue a 35 hours week of work is still... too much and preach a 32 or even a 30 hours week of work as a solution to unemployment! And always more state intervention. I could go on and on. Can you see which side they finally favor?

You are right , Carine, to say that the Lessons in France may be oriented.
you know like me that teachers are generally "socialists", it means left oriented.

The question for these teachers is : " Do I have a right to teach only something in what I believe in?, and to orient by this way the mind of my pupils."

No doubt that some engaged teachers go over the limit. I have no doubt also on what some american teachers will tell to their pupils about France.

That's sad, but Let's hope that travels, desire to exchange with each others, and more maturity will lead to remove the potential manipulating implants put in our brains by oriented teachers or medias.

God Levshit,
Will you shut your mouth, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
You "people" desicrate cemeteries but no one is supposed to say anything?
Your a bunch of Pierre Cardine wearing fruit roll ups with Saddam Hussien inspired berets..
Its Ok if Saddams goons chained an entire family together and doused them with gasoline and then set them on fire...
Levshit, why don't you respond to these facts?
Huh why?
Oh I forget, your a socialist piggy and a sheeple too stupid to think about morality and justice since your left leaning socialist philosophy doesn't believe in justice.
As I said you need to spend a summer on a west Texas ranch with some hard assed Hombres...they would either drive you into the ground or you would end up a man...(But since you lack testosterone.....) anyway...

Cozmogirl,

Your posts are highly incoherent, they go in every direction.
There's in this mess a question about cemetaries:
"You "people" desicrate cemeteries but no one is supposed to say anything?"
Yes , these facts needs to heavily punished . It's serious enough to write an article about his in few newspaers, no problem.
Another question ?

President of the Royal Anglian and Royal Lincolnshire Regiment Association Major-General Richard Gerrard-Wright, today condemned the vandalism.

"This is an absolutely disgraceful and unspeakable act," he said.

"How dare anyone do this to the graves of men who gave their lives for peace?

"My heart goes out to the families of these men. I sincerely hope there is never any repetition of this."

But Major General Gerrard-Wright said it would be wrong if the incident led to any anti-French feeling.

"I am sure this will prove to be the act of a lunatic fringe," he said.

"I have already spoken to some French friends of mine and they said they were as appalled as we were."

A St Aubert police spokesman said the headstones were randomly kicked over.

"We do not believe the vandals were motivated by any religious, racial or nationalistic feeling," he said.

"It could have been done by a single person or a group. An investigation has been launched."

The French Minister for War Veterans, Hamlaoui Mekachera, condemned the act.

He said: "This is an inexcusable attack on the memory of British, Canadian and New Zealand soldiers who should rest in peace on our soil."

Mr Mekachera said he hoped the police investigation "would swiftly identify the culprits".

1-9-8-0 Just before the election of the communists in France ? Im sorry I really haven't grasped why school text books reflect a FUTURE presidents politics. Perhaps the text book caused France to have a Communist President?
Also I have vet to see the clear distinction between Socialist and Communist - its the same thing. Either way your text books not only forment anti American hostility with your children (GENeration after generation) , they also maintain the power of the originators of these vicious lies. a Vote for Chirac is a vote against McDonalds, Coke, Pepsi, drink jihad soda instead - theres a special corner of hell for back stabbers and France will spend eternity there

Posted by Marc Levis at July 30, 2003 12:21 PM

> I have no doubt also on what some
> american teachers will tell to their pupils
> about France.

That's the point, we were not saying anything negative. Ten years ago I was reading Baudelaire, LA Rochefoucauld, and Foucault around my university and never heard anyone say anything negative about France...

test

The article heading was "another cemetary desicration" What was the one before this one in July?