Amazing news about diplomat, poet, man-of-principles and always-respectful-of-international-law French Foreign Minister Dominique Galouzeau de Villepin (Beware! It's a lonnnng story):

A reckoning is at hand over his handling of a secret mission to the Amazon to help free Ingrid Betancourt, captured 17 months ago by Colombian guerrillas while campaigning as the Green candidate in Colombian presidential elections.

A secret mission? You mean, a mission he would have handed unilaterally? No support of the UN or the international community? Tss tss tss...

The Betancourt mission, described by Mr de Villepin as purely "humanitarian", came to light only after the Brazilian press reported the mysterious appearance of a French military Hercules C-130 at Manaus airport on the Amazon in Brazil earlier this month.

Well, de Villepin certainly has some strange conception of what a "humanitarian" mission is. But thumbs up for the discretion, Dominique!

That the escapade failed to result in the return of Ms Betancourt, who holds both Colombian and French nationality, has become less important in the ensuing row than the nature of the expedition and its authorisation.

What? What? You mean Dominique didn't have the authorisation to launch a secret operation in which a French commando was supposed - but failed - to free Ms. Betancourt? No, that can't be. Not Dominique...

After more than a week defending his action, Mr de Villepin has failed to explain why the French government should have committed itself to such an expensive and risky clandestine venture in so distant a part of the world.

CLANDESTINE? You must be kidding, right? And he was unable to give any evidence to justify his aggress... whoops, sorry, I meant his clandestine operation in a foreign country?

The [Betancourt] family contacted Mr de Villepin in early July because Farc intermediaries indicated she would be released near Leticia, a small Colombian town on the upper reaches of the Amazon.
Mr de Villepin's office arranged for a the Hercules transporter, with medical and security service personnel plus a senior diplomat, to fly to Manaus on July 9.

Of course, the fact that Ms. Betancourt is a personal friend of Dominique has nothing to do with de Villepin's intervention.

Why the guerrillas failed to deliver remains a mystery, although Brazilian journalists have speculated the very public presence of the military aircraft in Manaus frightened off Farc.

Again, thumbs up for the discretion, Dominique. Wow, you were just the man Ms. Betancourt needed.

Mr de Villepin has denied any dealing with the guerrillas.

Suuuure... Kissing Saddam's ass Finding a political solution in Iraq was okay, but we trust you on the fact you didn't even try to deal with the guerrillas that kidnapped one of your personal friends. How can anyone even dare imagine the French government would deal with the guerrillas? What's next? France dealing with dictators? Pff!! Pure slander!

The Colombian government, which had apparently not been informed of Mr de Villepin's trip, has been embarrassed.

Whoops...

[French Interior Minister] Mr Sarkozy [who had been in Bogotá discussing anti-drug co-operation at the same time] has let it be known through press leaks that he had not been kept fully informed. Indeed, some French newspapers have speculated he encouraged publicity out of pique over not being in the know.

Of course, the vision of a government being a team, working together, supporting each other in times of need, is completely unknown to Mr. de Villepin and Mr. Sarkozy who never miss an opportunity to bash each other (and not to keep quiet, indeed). Those two men are way too sophisticated to rely on some kind of united-we-stand American simplisme...

But simplistes at Pave we are, that's why we are supposed to believe no deal was reached with the guerrillas to free Ms. Betancourt:

Q - Can you confirm or deny the report in the Brazilian daily, Extra, that the French aircraft was ready to offer medical assistance to Raul Reyes, a FARC commander? It was said that on board were spies, intelligence services agents, merceneries (...)?

de Villepin: France never ever negotiated with the guerrillas, no exchange ever took place. France sticked to the medical mission. It is France's responsibility and honor in any circumstance. We do it everytime one of our compatriot is in difficulty.

Since the secret operation was to take place partly in Brazil, Dominique is also facing some issues with the Brazilian government:

Q - Can you confirm that the French ambassador to Brasilia has been summoned twice in the last two days to the Brazilian Foreign Ministry to be told that Brazil expects an official clarification and an unequivocal statement that that kind of event is incompatible with mutual respect (...) ?

We have permanent contacts with the Brazilian authorities. I have no further comment.

So Dominique expressed "regrets":

"[Mr. de Villepin] expressed regrets that he couldn't have, as he had wished, reached M. Amorim earlier, as for the embarrassment felt by the Brazilian authorities as a result. In all due respect for the sovereignty of Brazil and to be faithful to the spirit of friendship and trust between our countries, France confirms her will to strengthen the French-Brazilian cooperation"

Well, Dominique, I'm afraid you may be a little dans la merde. But I have no doubt you'll find some good advice in the person of Jacques "no law of the jungle" Chiraq.

a French commando was supposed - but failed - to free Ms. Betancourt?

And he was unable to give any evidence to justify his aggress... whoops, sorry, I meant his clandestine operation in a foreign country?

I suggest you read your sources more carefully, Carine.

If the mission was to free her in an aggressive, miltary manner, would a single commando, or a helicopter full of them for that matter, be sufficent to confornt the might of the FARC?

Or was his mission not a simple personal intervention to try and secure the release of a hostage?

France sent troops into Brazil without consulting the government. Not police, not spies, but soldiers. These soldiers then had the audacity to claim diplomatic immunity, even though their entry into Brazil had not been arranged through proper diplomatic channels.
The Brazilians had every right to demand inspection of the plane, even forcibly.
It may be possible to interpret Carine's comments in a way that is untrue, but if anything, I think she understates the severity of de Villepin's actions.

> If the mission was to free her in an >aggressive, miltary manner, would a single >commando, or a helicopter full of them for that >matter, be sufficent to confornt the might of >the FARC?
- Luther

If they where US soldiers, yes!!!

But since we are talking about France, I doubt their entire military establishment would be able to pull it off.

"......confront the might of the FARC?"

Er, they're commandos. They're not supposed to confront entire armies. And what about the violations to the sovereignty of Brazil and Colombia? Isn't there some sort of international law against that? Oh, I forgot. It's only when America supposedly breaks it that its a problem. Sorry about that.

What commando ?
One diplomat, one doctor, and two strong men to preotect the two first guys doens't make a "Commando" ...
Laughable....

Luther, Marc,

Good boys! You believe everything the French government feeds you with. Goooood boys!

And indeed, who cares about the sovereignty of Colombia and Brazil? Who cares about telling them ahead since it was just a "humanitarian" or "medical" mission?

After all, they were just bringing with them a tiny Hercules C-130. Do you think the humanitarian/medical team had enough room in the aircraft?

Luther, Marc,
Here's an article for you from the BBC, certainly a media you'll trust.

What? Le Monde said military intelligence agents were also involved. Marc, I bet you trust Le Monde, don't you?

Besides doctors, the paper says, the 11-strong party included members of the French foreign intelligence service (DGSE) and a senior aide to French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin.

The team also included a "protection team" with "ultra-sophisticated communications equipment allowing them to find their way through the jungle," the paper said.

But I thought Chirac said "no law of the jungle"?

But whatever the nature of the mission to Manaus, the French informed neither the Brazilian nor the Colombian authorities.

Le Monde says that Brazilian officials who tried to board the plane were denied access, with the French claiming diplomatic immunity.

This is de Villepin's vision of multilateralism.

The plane that was sent to the Jungle had only 4 people onboard. This information comes from the brazilian pilot who carried them. Amongst them, a doctor, a diplomat, and two men. It's a poor commando to fight against FARC, don't you think ?

Who can seriously believe that France would engage a real "Commando" to fight against almost an army in a foreign country, Brazil additionally ???

I can however agree that something is not clear. It may be possible that France negotiated something with FARC to get the freedom of this Betancourt.

The fact that they didn't warn Brazil or Colombia is maybe a fault. But in the other way, these countries are not successful to make her free for some years.
I suppose everything must be made to free someone captive, abd the fact that Brazil was not warned has maybe another reason than Villepin's ego.
If This operation would have been succesfull with the help of Brazil, he would have a taken a personal benefit of her freedom also.
So, I put in doubt this theory of Journalist that Villepin wanted to make a personal show with this affair.

I'm not in the secrets of Diplomatic moves. And the journalists you quote are not also.

I'm not in the secrets of Diplomatic moves.

Indeed, neither am I. And neither were we in the plane to confirm how many people were inside.

I'm not criticizing the fact that de Villepin or the French government may have tried to rescue a French citizen held captive by guerrilleros for more than 17 months, even if they needed the help of the military to do it.

The problem is that de Villepin is lecturing everyone, and especially the US, about diplomacy, how international law, the international community, the cooperation between countries are important. Again, to quote Chirac, "we cannot accept the law of the strongest, the law of the jungle anymore". But the first thing they do is exactly the opposite.

If it was just a medical team, then why not letting the Brazilian and Colombian governments know? Why denying them the inspection of a military aircraft big enough to legitimately draw suspicions from uninformed officials?

It's nice to invite Mr. Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva to the G8 summit to show the world that Chirac is sooooo open-minded and is willing to invite all the world to the G8 summit.

But then, one month later, there is no cooperation possible with the Brazilian government anymore? What does that mean exactly? France feels so superior that de Villepin thought he didn't need anybody's help or authorisation in a faraway country he didn't know and where he had no authority.

If the operation had succeeded, that certainly wouldn't have been diplomatically so embarrassing. It would have been good especially for Ms. Betancourt, whose life may have been further endangered now.

Unfortunately, it failed. And what Mr. de Villepin did was illegal and not respectful regarding the sovereignty of Brazil and Colombia.

Who can seriously believe that France would engage a real "Commando" to fight against almost an army in a foreign country, Brazil additionally ???

Who could seriously think de Villepin would believe that a guerrilla, what you call "almost an army", would release Ms. Betancourt after 17 months free of charge? Who could seriously think he would only send "a doctor, a diplomat, and two men" to get Ms. Betancourt back home while they knew they were dealing with a guerrilla, "almost an army". Would you honestly send just 4 men in a military aircraft big enough to carry troops?

Who could seriously think de Villepin would believe that a guerrilla, what you call "almost an army"?
The numbers of soldiers, their organization makes this guerilla not a packet of few illuminated men . It's a military power.
And it's not 4 men, dressed as tourist as press mentioned, and amongst them a doctor and a diplomat that will defeat them.

"The problem is that de Villepin is lecturing everyone, and especially the US, about diplomacy, how international law, the international community, the cooperation between countries are important."
Maybe Brazil didn't want to cooperate with France on this operation, and France took its responsability to save one of its citizen.

Villepin's speaks about matters that interest the world security, about a war, where thousands of life are involved.
The Freedom of Ingrid Betancourt, despite it something we can only wish, doesn't need a resolution in the UN involving China Russia, Belgium and Bostwana or Cameroun.

There are different problems in this world, and they don't have the same scale.

Okay, it looks like there is some confusion here. The C-130 was flown out of Evreux. It landed in Manaus, under cover of re-fuelling before continuing on to French Guyana. After spending the night at the Tropical Manaus Resort Hotel, some members of the group chartered a Brazillian plane to Sao Paulo d'Olivenca.

So that's probably where the confusion over the pilot and the aircraft comes from.

The pilot says that the French Consul told him the men were tourists who wanted to explore the region, he told this to Le Monde, but he claims he recognized them as coming off the C-130 that had landed the day before. I'm wondering how the C-130 was marked, or not marked because the Brazillian pilot reported the event to the local authorities in Tabatinga.

At some point the authorities, supposedly from Manaus, got suspicious considering that 'tourists' landed in a C-130, and that the C-130 made a 600 mile plus detour to refuel (I haven't checked a map so I'll take the Scotsman's word for that part.

Now Villepin is supposed to have told Celso Amorim, Brazil's Foreign Minister, that the plane was carrying a medical team to help members of Betancourt's family, though he has also stated that it was carrying a medical team and was chartered (can you charter a plane from Evreux?) to take Betancourt back in case she was coincidentally released. This was after the fact, however, and France had already failed to consult with Brazil. I can't find if this was before or after Brazil sent the C-130 back to France.

As far as I can tell the commando story comes from Carta Capital, and many sources have discounted it, though not because there is contradicting information, rather it seems their neglect on the subject is based on France's statements.

As far as it looks now it isn't a big issue unless you happen to be Brazillian, or a member of Betancourt's family.

Oh, or if you feel like pointing out France's use of military forces and/or equipment to circumvent the sovereignty of an allied nation, while negotiating with known terrorists hostile to to that ally in an attempt to further its own nationalistic agenda. Wow, no wonder so many people hostile to the US like writing like that, it's kind of a mindless fun siliness like "bippity boppity boo."

France acted in what it thought was its own best interest, like nations everywhere. In this case they (high-placed members of the government more specifically) believed that rescuing Betancourt (after last months failed attempt by Brazil) was more important than their relations with Brazil.

Kal

And it's not 4 men, dressed as tourist as press mentioned, and amongst them a doctor and a diplomat that will defeat them.

THANK YOU. That's exactly my point. You just don't send 4 men to deal with guerrilla members.

Maybe Brazil didn't want to cooperate with France on this operation, and France took its responsability to save one of its citizen.

No, de Villepin didn't ask. That's different. Brazil didn't refuse, France didn't even ask.

There are different problems in this world, and they don't have the same scale.

And there are laws and international conventions and institutions that have to be respected EVEN by M. Galouzeau. The sovereignty of other countries, for example.

So the French perspective is that treaties, laws, international relations can be violated or ignored as long as we are saving a frenchperson, even a single person!

However when the U.S. and other nations act to stop a despot and in the process save or better millions of lives it is wrong and to be protested at all cost.

If Ingrid Betancourt is a French citizen, we also have to ask the question of why she was seeking the presidential office of Colombia. This sounds like imperialism to me. No way around it. Especially considering that this failed rescue mission claimed diplomatic immunity, thus establishing an official connection between the Government of France and Ingrid Betancourt.

Does France routinely send military aircraft to pick up stranded French tourists? Of course not. But they would to pick up captured specially trained agents attempting a coupe and eventual colonization of Colombia. It's not as if France has not tried this before. Students of history can point to many examples of this. In fact, the very spot I am currently sitting was once part of a French colony.

This is indeed a serious charge and must be investigated completely. If only to restore the honor of France and clear her name from those who would attempt to besmurch it so.

Betancourt sounds French, But in fact she is French because of her wedding with a French
We can't deny that she has also many connections with France. She studied there, some of her ascendance is French also.

But she is Colombian first. To speak about colonization is really a remark of poor quality.

Who wants Colombia as a colony ?
It is so nice colony, full of Mafia, people sooted at the streets, a strong operating guerilla...
No ,France doesn't want ,thank you.

Charles, will you be serious one day ?

>Who wants Colombia as a colony ?
>It is so nice colony, full of Mafia, people >sooted at the streets, a strong operating >guerilla...
>No ,France doesn't want ,thank you.

Yeah, no way france could have Colombia as a colony. To much fighting would be involved! Besides, who would they surrender to? FARC?

Who wants Colombia as a colony?

Then why are you so involved in Africa? You know, those countries with the guerillas, "people sooted at the streets", etc. How is Colombia any worse than they are? I'll take Colombia over Ivory Coast anyday.

On another subject, Why is France using US-made C-130's? I thought a great power like France would have home-grown planes. Why are they relying on US equipment? Can't they use an Airbus or something? Doesn't Mirage make anything bigger than those inferior fighter planes they produce?

Hey, if you want to be the standard bearer of a multipolar (or whatever it is called) power you better get used to it. This is the kind of stuff you are going to deal with every single day, from every single country on the planet. It will sometimes seem like they are purposely making up new countries just to drive you crazy.

So get used to this, or you end up like a teenager who wants a car. Sure there is the freedom of driving around when you want. But you'll soon find out there is gas to be paid for... and state, title and tag fees... insurance fees... eniromental inspection sticker and fees... driver's license and fees... annual or semi annual renewal of all those fees... oil changes every 3-5000 miles... new tires and disposal fees... tire rotation and balance fees. And you better rotate them or else you will be paying for new tires sooner and the disposal fees for them too.

And then you have kids, who spill cereal in the back seat and grind it into the carpets. They will put Tablerone chocolate bars in the sun visor and it will melt all over the dash. That stereo system you thought you'd get to listen to Miles Davis on? Forget it! Non stop "Alvin and the Chipmonks" or "Barney the Dinosaur" in quadrophonic sound. Why pay extra for the non skip abilities, it just won't make a difference at all.

And it doesn't matter how carefull you are. Some schmuck is going open their door in a parking lot and dent your car. A stone on the road will get kicked up and ding you front fender or fall of a truck and crack your windshield. You will leave the window open one day, and it will be sure to rain. All this is going to happen and more. So get used to it. You haven't seen jack yet!

So be careful what you wish for, because I'm here to see that you get it. You say the chicken came first, I'll say from what egg. You say the egg came first, I'll say who laid the egg. You say Betencourt isn't French, I'll say French commandos try to kidnap a Colombian citizen. You can't ever win. Don't worry about me. It will come from most everyone else too. No matter how quick you do it, it took too long. Now matter how long you tried, you didn't try long enough. You either interfered or you neglected. You're either too hot or your too cold. All at the same time. It won't matter that the charges are mutually exclusive. The Pakistanis will say you abondonded them and helped the Indians, the Indians will say you abondoned them and helped the Pakistanis.

No matter how much you give, it's never enough. If you don't give as much last year, then you stole it. You just can't win. Get used to it. The deluge is just beginning.

Any nation has the right, actually the duty, to act to protect national interests and citizens. I've always maintained there is no one body of nations that has the moral authority to tell another nation not to act. Of course, before any sort of military operation is considered there should be an attempt made at a diplomatic solution.

If diplomacy doesn't work, then send the military, or a rescue squad. I don't condemn France because France must act to defend France and French citizens. However, I believe a bit of quiet diplomacy should have been tried first. I don't mean diplomacy involving the UN, just one country and another.

Having said that, since the French government likes to lecture everyone about international concensus, it's extremely hypocritical of France to do something like this. This is something that will be used as another example of the French government's "do as I say, not as I do" approach.

If the US had been the one to to this, we'd be crucified by all the self-righteous anti-Americans. As fas as I can see, France is getting a pass on this. I don't hear many people screaming about it. If the it was the US, it would be front page in every European news paper.

"However, I believe a bit of quiet diplomacy should have been tried first. I don't mean diplomacy involving the UN, just one country and another."
This woman is captive for 18 monthes. Don't you think that the kind of diplomacy you described was already tried ?
The fails of various attemps, negotiations to make her free failed.
France maybe took another initiative and failed also.
Maybe the FARC set as a condition to make her free ,to not involve or warn Brazil.
It could explain why Brazil was not fully aware of this operation.

The fails of various attemps, negotiations to make her free failed.
More than that, last month Columbia staged a military raid in an attempt to get her back.

I think the chief bitch with France on this is that they failed to get Brazil's permission before launching their mission (actually a rather minor incident made worse because they were arrested while in Brazil) and that they were either there to pick Betancourt up after having secretly negotiated with a terrorist organization to secure her release, or were there to secretly negotiate with terrorist to secure her release.

There is also the appearance of impropriety since Betancourt (holding dual-citizenship) happens to be a close personal friend of Villepin (according to the UK Guardian).

It does tend to add credence to the charge that Chiraq negotiated a secret deal with a member of Milosivic's cabinet(?) granting him immunity from prosecution of war crimes in exchange for the release of two French fliers.

Kal

"This woman is captive for 18 monthes. Don't you think that the kind of diplomacy you described was already tried ?"

The fails of various attemps, negotiations to make her free failed.

France maybe took another initiative and failed also.

-Marc

"That country was captive for 12 years. Don't you think that the kind of diplomacy you described was already tried? Even by going to the UN - the holy of holies in diplomacy.

The fails of the various resolutions, negotations to bring it to a close failed.

The US took another initative - a final chance - it failed.

Something had to be done."

So which is it? The needs of the one out weigh the needs of the many?

Some peole here find it clever to compare the Betancourt case and Iraq case.
They are so hungry to find something against "Villepin lack of repesct of institution" that they would post something if he would be catched crossing the street when the light is red...

With you so genious comparaison, one should wonder why the US doesn't send an army to free Ingrid Betancourt.
Is she not valuable person ? Not enough oil in her package ?

Of course France is going to get a pass on this. France always gets a pass. France got a complete pass in Pakistan when the engineers got bombed. The US was holding jets that Pakistan paid for and those engineers were working on what? A SUBMARINE! What is the civilian use for a submarine... tourist cruise ships? High tech trouffle farms? Perhaps the Pakistanis natural love for deep sea exploration? No, France gets a complete pass just like they will with the French jets found hidden in the sand dunes yesterday near Baghdad. France always gets a pass. It was the Amerrricaaans that tried to colonize Viet Nam, the French had nothing to do with it. It was the Amerrrricaaans that had slavery, France didn't set up any of those colonies at all. It was the Amerrrricaaans that armed Saddam, France had nothing to do with it. Those jets you found yesterday in Baghdad were just a Mirage. Yes, it certainly was!

If the US knew where she was (along with 3 Americans that are being held as well), I'm sure they would go in and get them. And let's face it- they'd do a much better job than the GIGN or whatever alphabet-soup organization the French would send in.

______________________________________________

In other news- Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin was caught Friday in Paris double-parking and throwing chewing gum wrappers on the sidewalk. Developing.........

: )
I'm with DJS, send the US military in.

No, France gets a complete pass just like they will with the French jets found hidden in the sand dunes yesterday near Baghdad.

Hold on Charles. On that one it really is going to depend on when France sold those jets to Iraq. We have no idea when they were sold right now. They were very likely sold before the UN sanctions were in place.

Your efforts on this particular issue would be better served directed at the Rolands that were found with manufacture dates later than the start of the sanctions (not to be confused with the ones sold before the sanctions), or the helicopter equipment that was found after the sanction dates.

Kal

No, France gets a complete pass just like they will with the French jets found hidden in the sand dunes yesterday near Baghdad.

Hold on Charles. On that one it really is going to depend on when France sold those jets to Iraq. We have no idea when they were sold right now. They were very likely sold before the UN sanctions were in place.

Yes, in the same way if some WMD should be found we need to first ascertain if they were sold before the sanctions were in place.
Donald Rumsfeld could be standing by to make a quick determination?

Yes, in the same way if some WMD should be found we need to first ascertain if they were sold before the sanctions were in place.

Nope, not at all the same. The WMDs would almost certainly have been manufactured by Iraq, not sold to them in violation of UN Sanctions. There will, however, probably be an investigation into production facility and capabilities that may have been sold to Iraq in violation of the UN sanctions.

Fighter jets and SAMs sold before the sanctions went into effect would not be an issue.

Kal

See, France gets a pass as always.

US, nope. There are definitely no WMD in Iraq... and if there is, then US definitely sold it to them. Well, you got all the bases covered, I'll give you that much.

I don't care how good a player your are, how great a bicycle kick you have, what a skillful passer you are, or how you can head the ball on a corner kick... if you persist in putting the ball in the wrong net, I simply do not won't you on my team. I fail to see why this is so difficult for anyone to understand. To see France repeatedly jumping around as if they just scored the game winning goal is surreal. Yes, there are fans who are cheering. But, no matter who scores there will be fans that chear. Let's see who was cheering after France's latest shot on goal. Fidel, Saddam, Robert Mugabe, Kim Il Jong and Charlie Taylor, all were delighted with France's dazzeling footwork. Hell, Idi Amin Dada cheered so much he went into a frikken coma! So what do we have to do? Please tell me. We took away your uniforms a while ago, but you keep showing up. What more do we have to do to make you understand that you are no longer on the team?

This action shows how hollow the French protest against supposed unilateral action (was it 45 or 50 countries that were in favor?)against Saddam was. France isn't against Unilateral action at all. The're just against American action of any nature.
Like Mark Twain said, France is a country governed by whores. If you take this analogy to its next step, you see that the whore was upset because the COP (USA) was taking her prized custommer (Saddam) off the market. The creation of the Euro Union is the whores attempt to get a pimp. I suppose the UN is the police chief on the take.

I think the term "whore" might be a little too strong there J. Me, I personally think that France is one smoking hot chick with a combo Cinderella complex and Stockholm syndrone, who sometimes gets a little too possessive once in a while.

Sure you try and help her out, but as soon as you do... BAM! She's shooting you with the kidnappers gun and letting the guy go. And then if you go help out some other chick, she gets all jealous like you was cheet'n on her. Best to avoid chicks like that. Too many problems.

With you so genious comparaison, one should wonder why the US doesn't send an army to free Ingrid Betancourt.
Is she not valuable person ? Not enough oil in her package ? - More brain drizzles from Marx (Yes I like the spell that way.

We have no dog in the hunt for Betancourt. However we did have a dog in the hunt to enforce the relevant UN resolutions re: Iraq.

You Marxist claim France is ok because it is helping one of its citizens (its own interest) when we had an interest in helping the UN enforce its own actions. (The relevant resolutions.... Who says the US doesn't support the UN. We support it inspite of itself.) So if your actions are ok in advancing your interests then our actions are ok in advancing our own interests.

Hey gang, I'd like to point out that there no way the US could plant large amounts of chemical agent in Iraq. The surety program utilized at demil plants and the overwatch procedures at chem agent depots are pretty extreme. There is also international inspection of the sites under a joint chem treaty.

Kal

Here is an edito from the Financial Times about it

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059478656211&p=1012571727088

Charles I like saying "Whore"! Villipin showing his balls again. big deal Is there anybody on the planet that hasn't been shown the Frenchmen's balls yet? I know it's a slow news week.

I wrote earlier: Fighter jets and SAMs sold before the sanctions went into effect would not be an issue.

Well, it's looking like at least the MiG was sold after '91.
MiGs Found.

If it is true that the planes were sold after '91 then the Russians sold them to Iraq in violation of the UN. Now the French Rolands that they have found, on the other hand are a bit murkier. They could have been sold without the knowledge of the French government, there's simply not enough info to know.

Kal