-----Original Message-----
From: stephane.mohr@free.fr [mailto:stephane.mohr@free.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:08 PM
To: royalewithcheese@pavefrance.com
Subject: YOU...
I want to tell you that your site urge to hate and you should be ashamed of yourself ! You have no respect for other countries and just because you have been attacked by terrorist you think the world is against you ? We have a lot of respect for the 9/11 BUT what you forgot is that there is more horrible things happening in the world and YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ! What about millions of people starving to death or people dying in the gethos of Calcutta and ombay ?? WHEN ARE GOING TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE WRONG ???
I bought a t-shirt of NY last week and I was pleased of! But now I've read all your LIES about france , I think I'm gonna change my mind !!
YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY REPECT FOR MY CONTRY, BUT I STILL HAVE REPECT FOR YOURS AND THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE YOUR FUCKIN'WEBSITE WHICH IS FULL OF BULLSHITS AND LIES !
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And my reply
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Oh dear, Stephane...
A tiny part of my weeps knowing that I've offended your sensibilities.
Then the logical, rational part kicks in and I can only sit back and sigh at the juvenile way you craft words. Really resembles an infant banging his spoon on his high chair, actually.
Frankly, I'd encourage you to consider the following:
1) No country big or small gives more money to the developing world than the United States. Certainly not France.
2) The Iraqi people are free of a dictator whom the French government was quite happy to allow to continue to torture and decimate -- as long as that oil kept flowing to French companies.
Cheers, God Bless, and many happy returns.
Michael
Didn't we get this same e-mail last week? Can't people come up with somthing a little more original? The usual trollish rantings do get a bit monotonious after the 20th repition. Please try to do better Stephane.
Yeah, what Stephane said! You have no respect for other countries. You aren't fooling anyone with this concentrating only on France stuff. We know it's just a code word for all other countries.
"You all should be ashamed!" Stephane was oh so right when he/she wrote that. You should be beet red with shame... sans the smirk of course.
All lies! It's true. Every single article posted here is all lies. And don't try to spin this by saying that you are merely posting links to articles from news sources from all over the world. It's all lies. You all obviously have forced these news sources to make up those lying articles so you could make up your lying commentary. There are no fires in France! France is crawling with American tourists this summer! And Chirac isn't even French! Lies, damn lies and statistics!
I'm returning my NY t-shirt I bought last week too. I hope that makes you feel ashamed. I thought it over for almost two years before I bought it. Almost two whole years! And what do I get from you people? This measely little site with not one mention of the suffering in Oh Calcutta. Especially the third act!
Was it something we said Stephane?
Where could you get such silly ideas, France is everyone's friend, in their own little way.
We are just reciprocating that feeling, in OUR own little way.
Perhaps you should be asking: "Why do they hate us?”
Au revoir mon ami
How original Stephane!
How totally unique! I am in awe!
I bow before such comic genius!
You and Dennis Miller put the rest of us philistines to shame!
And of course the spelling of your name is unique as well,
Do we pronounce your name, Ste-FAYNE?
or Ste-FON? This is a pertinant question because one way sounds like a Bloods or Crips way of elocution and the other is the correct Anglo-Saxon version.
Please let us weak minded fools here in the States know as we wouldn't want to offend!
Stephanie, you need to look at the WHOLE PICTURE. The biggest reason we seem to dislike (I use the term midly) France, is because when we involved ourselves in saving you from the Nazi's, we didn't sit around for months, and try to show why it it was not a good idea. Had we done what you did to us, by sitting on the sidelines, you're country would suffered unspeakable damage unlike you've ever known. You need to compare all the bad things Hitler did, to all the bad things Saddam did, and say to yourself: "If we could have struck him (Hitler) early on, could we have saved millions of innocent people?"
Now consider Sadaam's history, and think to yourself what a madman like him, would do if he had the proper capabilities. Then ask yourself: "Should we (France)ally ourselves with our friends who have been there for us, or should we ally ourselves with someone with a history likened to a Madman (Hitler) that sought to destroy us?"
Now I think we all know the anwer to that one Steph, common sense has departed from the minds of your Government leaders. It's time to elect new leaders that will keep your country in safety, without even one thought about what you could lose economically.
Feel free to speak your mind to me: ktk3438@hotmail.com
{What about millions of people starving to death...}Steph must have struggled with that for hours. -Should I include Africa ? Will these Americans eat me alive knowing that France has lead the effort to keep geneticly modified grains out of Africa, thus ensuring that millions will starve. No guess I better leave it out. Oh wait I can mention Callcuta. Bet they have starving people there and no one will tie it to BOVINE or France. Ya thats the ticket.
Plus de mensonges, plus de la même prose.
1) No country big or small gives more money to the developing world than the United States. Certainly not France.
It's an american cliche, false of course. You are not first, far from it...
Financial assistance to developing countries and multilateral organizations to promote economic development and welfare: rank per country and per inhabitant:
1- Luxembourg $356.69 per person
...
7- France $105.41 per person
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20- USA $24.59 per person
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23- Saudi Arabia $0 (a bit poor they are probably)
Economic aid - donor (per capita) rank
Source:CIA World Factbook 2002
Ah... facts can be cruel...
Let's look at the whole "starving world" thing. Leaving out the countries starving because of ill planned socialistic nationalization, tyrannical dictators, ill-judged cold war alliances with the non missed USSR, or government by luddite religious fanatics you find that forign aid sometimes is more of a problem in the long term. Why?
1) It encourages rampant corruption in the various governments, leading to paralsis in infastructure and development.
2) It discourages local industry (especally in the area of food production). Why grow crops or work if the west is going to provide food for no cost.
3) It reduces the self determination of the national government, and causes it to be subject to the wishes of the provider nations under threat of loss of aid.
Now some would argue that nationalism and national soverignty should be superceded by a one world type government. Nice little thought, except you might not wind up with the socialist utopia the professors promise. Later.
Now as to Papa French's numbers. What is the total amount of money? Really, the population of Luxembourg is what, 15 people? Also, is this government spending only or does this include private/corprate donations or investments.
I could make the remark that France doesn't really count as much of the donations kick back via arms sales, but that would be rude.
Papafrench,
Would you mind giving the exact facts? Looks like you (voluntarily?) forgot something from your source:
Definition: This entry refers to net official development assistance (ODA) from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations to developing countries and multilateral organizations. ODA is defined as financial assistance that is concessional in character, has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare of the less developed countries (LDCs), and contains a grant element of at least 25%. The entry does not cover other official flows (OOF) or private flows.
And your figures are biased, as Mr. Blue accurately noticed, since they are per capita.
Here are the figures, same source, by donor:
1. Japan $9.1 billion
2. United States $6.9 billion
3. France $6.3 billion
20. Luxembourg $160 million
23. Saudi Arabia pledged $100 million in 1993
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don
And again, private flows have to be added.
Ouch! Indeed, facts can be cruel...
The United States is the world leader in humanitarian assistance and food aid, providing over $2.5 billion in 2001.
The United States is the top importer of goods from developing countries, importing $449 billion in 2001, eight times the amount of total Official Development Assistance (ODA) to developing countries from all donors.
The United States is the greatest source of private capital to developing countries, averaging $36 billion annually between 1997 and 2000.
The United States leads the world in charitable donations to developing countries -- $4 billion in 2000.
At $11 billion, the U.S. is the top provider of Official Development Assistance (ODA) in 2001. This ODA is expected to increase substantially from 2001 to 2003 in key sectors:
HIV/AIDS -- 54%
Basic Education - 50%
Trade and Investment - 38%
Agriculture - 38%
USAID's core "Development Assistance" account is expected to increase 22 percent overall from 2001 to 2003, with significant increases in key regions:
Africa - 30%
Asia and the Near East - 39%
Latin America and the Caribbean - 29%
The United States is the largest donor to the multilateral development banks (MDBs). The Administration's FY 2003 budget request for the MDBs totals more than $1.4 billion and includes significant increases in U.S. contributions to both the International Development Association and the African Development Fund.
http://www.usaid.gov/press/releases/2002/fs_mca.html
http://www.usaid.gov/about_usaid/
And this one is for Stéphane. To quote you, Stéphane, your e-mail was "full of bullshits and lies".
Here is the India Briefing of the USAID website.
And from the USAID-India website:
Five Decades of U.S.-India Cooperation
To date, India has received the equivalent of $13 billion in U.S. economic assistance ($52.7 billion in today's dollars). The nature of this economic assistance has been based on the Indian government's requests and its changing requirements as the economy developed.
There you'll find info concerning West Bengal and there about the Maharashtra, Indian states you're interested in, apparently...
Mr blue,
I could make the remark that France doesn't really count as much of the donations kick back via arms sales, but that would be rude.
this is not considered as I don't think it has the main objective to promote economic development and welfare
On the same website
Map & Graph: Military: Top 100 Conventional arms exports (per capita)
...
7. France $21.55 per person
...
10. United States $16.26 per person
full rank here
Then, we sell plenty of weapons, I agree on that, but the USA are not that far. And as you seem, you and carine to like multiplying them by the population (even if I think that it's not as relevant), figures are:
1. United States $4,562 million
2. China $3,100 million
3. France $1,288 million
4. United Kingdom $1,125 million
What is lacking though, is to which kind of countries these weapons are sold. If someone knows where to find that.
As a conclusion, the difference between us, is that I don't see my own country with rose tainted glasses.
I too would like to know who gets what. I would also like to know what falls under the definition of convetional arms. Are aircraft and tanks included or is it just limited to small arms? How about munitions? However, let's go back to my point about the negitive effects forign aid can have on some of these countries. The problems with the oil for food program in Iraq being one example, much of the edemic corruption in Africa being another example. I personally found it pretty bad when the pre war vote at the UN turned into a bribery contest between the US and France. Ah, hello neo-colonialism.
What are you doing in here? There will be Americans to badmouth tomorrow! Go check on Grandma. Heat is a killer.
Run a cool bath tub for her. Dig out the box fan from the attic. Heat is a killer.
Momma might need some attention too. FIll a backpack water bladder and hang it on the fan. the air will be cool from evaporation. Don't wait! Heat is a Killer
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Que faites-vous dedans ici? Il y aura des Américains au badmouth demain! Disparaissent le contrôle sur Grandma. La chaleur est un tueur. Courez un baquet frais de bain pour elle. Creusez hors du ventilateur de boîte du grenier. La chaleur est un tueur. Momma pourrait avoir besoin d'une certaine attention aussi. Remplissez réservoir souple de l'eau de baluchon et accrochez-le sur le ventilateur que l'air sera frais de l'évaporation. N'attendez pas! La chaleur est un tueur
HEY PAPA FROG!
What year was that CIA world fact book published? Its a pertinant question considering your about to have a whole a** load of FACTS dumped on your shi*** head.
What year was that CIA world fact book published?
The year of your 10th year anniversary.
HA HA HA...your so funny Papa Froggie...man you make me laugh...ha ha ha...
WHAT YEAR WAS THAT BOOK PUBLISHED? I would like to know. If you do not furnish the facts then your lying...period. AS you know any good ethical historian furnishes endnotes or footnotes to everything piece of information they offer a reader so those facts can be looked up and verified. Therefore unless you furnish what year and what page (Basically the usual citation) then I have no choice but to be convinced that as usual your speaking out of your nether regions....
I have reason to doubt your "facts" because well you seem to feel it unnessary to let me see where you got them? Do you think I am so stupid that I would as to take your lies and mechanations for face value without double and triple checking? You must be insane and unethical and not a very good debater either...oh well the Frogs...
Can't live with em and you can't kick em out.
Hint for Cozmogirl in my first message:
Source:CIA World Factbook 2002
You know, this is all stupid. You all argue back and forth, but what are you obtaining. 9/11 happened in 2001. It was terrible and a great tragedy. Yes there are people starving in the world, but arguing is getting any of these things solved. I'm an American, and very proud to be so, but I have respect for other countries, too. Most of you are badmouthing other countries, but in reality you are just showing how rude and inconsiderate Americans can be. I don't like being called a hick 'cause I live in Tennessee, and I'm not. It's just a label. Oh, you are from Tennessee, you must be a hick. This is the same kind of things that we are saying about other countries, and other countries to us. Those are the lies right there.
