Despite unending bombings in Isreal, a French official seems to believe that there's no evidence that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are "terror groups."

Diplomatic advisor to President Chirac, Maurice Gourdault-Montagne, said: "If we find that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are indeed terror groups opposed to peace, we may have to change the EU's stand," said Gourdault-Montagne. "However, we mustn't limit ourselves to one, clear cut, position." (Link, link, registration needed)

How many bus bombings is it going to take, Monsiour Montague?

What is terrorism ?
People who pose bombs, like tito's partisans ? French resistance ?
People who deliberatly kill civilians, to terrorise population ? like the United states in Hiroshima ? Or in Vietnam ?
It's something to think about...

By the way, the US advanture in irak is a total failure. A fiasco we don't have seen from many years. Every day is worst than the other. Iraq will become the mecca of terrorism. The most incredible is that Bush doesn't seem to see it.Maybe he doesn't care. His fortune is made.

Après moi le déluge ? (Louis XV I believe).

Under the sun of Irak, the dream of an american empire is disapearing...Good bye...

By the way, the US advanture in irak is a total failure. A fiasco we don't have seen from many years.

Comme il est facile de voir la paille dans l'oeil du voisin et non la poutre qu'il y a dans le sien ! It's the pot calling the kettle black!

Read this, maybe next time you'll avoid ridiculing yourself: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss. France has nothing to be proud of, really.

Or are you just one more French terrorists sympathizer? Ugh!

Sweet dreams, nuk84... that's all your comments are, sweet dreams to you. Oh, you can't sleep at night, really? Well, switch off your propaganda-filled TV and read History books instead, a lot of History books. You need them badly, among other things.

As Mr. Nut84,
Let's take a look at your snarky little Hiroshima comment. Speaking for my grandparents, who fought in the pacific, it was a very good thing. It meant that a million US serviceman would not have to die on the isle of Japan. It shook up the Japanese government to realize that surrender might be nessary (and by implication saved millions of Japanese lives). As Carnie said, study history (and not the popular marxist revisionist propaganda that disguises itself as history these days). As for Vietnam, we did everything we could to avoid civilian causualties (unlike the previous occupants) during that nasty little war.

Here we go again, and people making snarky worthless throwaway comments about Hiroshima?
Gee more people died in the bombing of Dresden than in Hiroshima. And from what I remember having had a father who had been transferred to the 9th Army Airforce from the mighty 8th to fight against the Japs (There she goes again being all politically incorrect...well MAKE ME PC I DARE YA!) the casualty rate for American's would have been ENORMOUS!
As Patton said you make the other poor bastard die for his country, you live for yours..that philosophy has served us pretty well. Unlike Europe, America isn't built on the bones of dead people....and that is the truth.
We dropped the big on Hiroshima so men like my dad could come home. We owed nothing to those parasites in Japan except a feiry death and thats what they got. Period!

Don't forget that Japan was another country that we liberated. Plus, Japan has been a pretty good friend since WW II. They did support us in the liberation of Iraq, and they give us quite a few dollars a year through tourism. Anyway, please don't slam friends.

Moral relativists like Nutjob84 are quite a work of art. Not beautiful art, but a twisted idiotic modern art that people stare at but just can't figure out.

People like him ally themselves with dictators and totalitarian regimes. Why? Just because they are opposed to the United States? How pathetic.

"What is terrorism ?"

"People who pose bombs, like tito's partisans ? French resistance ? People who deliberatly kill civilians, to terrorise population ? like the United states in Hiroshima ? Or in Vietnam ?"

"By the way, the US advanture in irak is a total failure. A fiasco we don't have seen from many years."

History books? Dear Carine YOU should read history books, and you'll know the thin line between terrorist and patriots

History books? Dear Carine YOU should read history books, and you'll know the thin line between terrorist and patriots

How about this. Our side, their side.
Simple.
Pick a side. Islamic extremism or the Free West.
No dithering, no moral equivalancy, no trying to sit on the fence. You can either support the Free West, or support their enemies.

Your choice.

Just don't be like France. Their government committed to one side while playing lip service to the other.

Kal

French troops still in the Ivory Coast. Ham handedly squelching Gen. Whoosits and keeping the desident Northern tribe of hoogivashit from following their natural inclinations. Namely shooting the crap out of which ever strays to close to their respective turfs. Frenchie has been there at least 8 months (plenty of time for the natives to hate him), and I read here two frogs got croaked

Perhaps it is time to introduce Frenchie to what terrorism is like. I'm sure Gen. Whoosits could make use of some of the RPG's our boys are piling up in Iraq. And the Hoogivesashiters might find creativity were they supplied with some antipersonal mines.

You know since Gen. Whoosits is the rightful dictator in charge perhaps the resultant quagmire would be Patriotism.

Bu the way: anti-war groups have opened a peace office in Iraq to monitor human rights abuses.

A coalition of anti-war groups has opened an “Occupation Watch Center” in Baghdad to monitor alleged human rights violations by U.S. troops and the actions of corporations such as Halliburton in rebuilding Iraqi infrastructure. The coalition is also exploring the idea of advising U.S. soldiers in Iraq on how they can claim conscientious objector status so that they could be discharged and shipped home.

COZMOGIRL

Since you appear to be very knowledgeable about the Crimes against Humanity perpetrated by the USA, here are two quotes by two Unitedstatish famous people (not by two communist-nostalgic, Islamicised, feelthy Frogs):

1/ Admiral Leahy was the Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and the unofficial coordinator of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. A close advisor to both presidents, he thought a Japanese surrender could be arranged without use of the atomic bomb and without an invasion of the Japanese mainland. He felt that demands for unconditional surrender would only encourage Japan to fight on and cost American lives. He was a staunch anti-communist and did not like the idea of having Russia enter the Pacific War, which could give the Russians more post-war control of Pacific territory. Leahy believed the atomic bomb would probably not work. After the atomic bombings of Japan, Leahy condemned the use of the atomic bomb for practical reasons: "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons." (William D. Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441). And on Aug. 8, 1945 he wrote in his diary: "there is a certainty that it [the a-bomb] will in the future be developed by potential enemies and that it will probably be used against us." He also objected to the a-bomb's use for moral reasons: "in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages" (William D. Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441).

2/ "Japan was at that very moment seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'... It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." (General Eisenhower).

Well, Hamas is a terroris group, I think nobody doubt about this, even France...

I think the French thought is this one : there's only one way to go out of this crisis.
This way is to put Hamas, Islamic Djihad, Palestinian authority, Isaraelian, Americans around one table, and they agree about the peace conditions.
Hams and Djihad have in their hand the key for the peace. If they stop their deadly bombings, peace will be near.
That's why France "prefers" to keep them in the negotiations process, rather to declare them officially "terrorists", with all the consequences it implies ( only repression against them ,no negotiation).
Additionally these organizations are so widely supported by the population that the a too blind repression would become a real agression against the whole palestinian population.

So the French position has a justification.
However it has also limits. Some people in Jihad or Hams will never stop fighting ,putting Bombs.
They must be exterminated, either by Israelians, either by "moderate" palestianans.

In any case, to declare a total war to this terrorist organizations will only bring more and more deads in both sides. A escape door for peace must be preserved. To put them on the "terrorist groups list" is a way to close this door.

Mark Levis,

Hamas & co are surely terrorist organisations. They must be fought. With you on that.

Still, do you know Palestinians' living conditions?

Stolen, removed from their own country, deprived from tehir rights, humiliated, killed & now fenced-off...

Israel is behaving like a barbaric country.

I sympathise with Israelis killed by coward terrorists in atrocious conditions.

But there's a road to peace other than ransacking a traumatised neighbour.

Kodiak,
Good point about oppisition to using the 2 bombs on Japan. However, others were in support (otherwise the bloody thing never would have been dropped). I would have some refrences, but all of my books are halfway across the world at the moment (on a former Japanese base). Don't forget that there was a coup attempted on the eve of Japan's surrender- to prevent the transmission of the Emperor's surrender broadcast. Plus the fact that many die-hard militirist were prepared still to fight to the death (basic Bushido-don't surrender). Don't forget Tinian and Okinawa- which gave America a preview of what a war on the home islands of Japan would have looked like. Secondly, the horrors of that usage in real life gave everyone a good pause. Imagine if it was first used during the Berlin blockade, or during the Korean war- hello World War 3. The use of these 2 bombs is a major reason why the cold war stayed cold.

It's funny how you can count on Marc Levis to represents genuine French thinking, whatever the subject. To say that, OK, Hamas are terrorists, but we can't call them that because we want to negotiate with them, is typical of the kind of twisted reasoning only the French can come up with.

As for 'peace now', yes we know about the Palestinian living conditions. And if you knew history you would know how they got there. Was it because hordes of murderous Jews drove them from their peaceful villages? Did the Jews invade their villages by force and ethnically cleanse them? Were the Jews organizing progroms against the innocent Palestians? Did they have to flee from violent political persecution in a Jewish police state? Please 'peace now', you bloody hypocrite, point out to me when all of this happened.

The so-called Palestinians are Arabs that under the influence of 1920-30s nationalism refused to accept (to live in) a Jewish state. Nationalist neighbors like Egypt's Nasser and later Saddam Hussein encouraged the 'Palestinians' to believe that one day they would rid the Middle East of all non-Arab, non-Muslim elements.

HERE IS SOME EVIDENCE OF THE PASSIONATE AFFECTION US PEOPLE DO HARBOUR TOWARDS THE FRENCH.
EVERYDAY OFFICIAL FRENCH WEBSITES ARE FLOODED WITH BREATHTAKING ACKNOWLEDGMENTS OF GRATITUDE FOR FRENCH RESISTANCE AGAINST BUSH'S WAR.
THE LIST IN UNCOUNTABLE AND THE MESSAGES ARE SENT FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, MAINLY FROM THE USA.

ONE THING IS SURE: SO FAR OFFICIAL US WEBSITES HAVEN'T RECEIVED THAT MANY MESSAGES FROM GRATEFUL, HAPPY IRAQIS...

To France -- OUR PROFOUND APOLOGIES For the Ingratitude of a Few in America!
The U.S. Vilification of France Represents
PANDERING IGNORANCE OVER SUBSTANCE

The Statue of Liberty - Standing Tall like France.
Thank You France For This Precious - Beloved Gift and Revered Symbol of All That We Hold Dear. And Thank You France For Your Vital Aid in Our Struggle for Independence, Without Which These Values Would NOT Have been Embedded in Our Reality. We are U.S. Citizens Who Respect YOUR Right to Participate in the Democratic Process Pursuant to YOUR OWN Insights and Conscience, in the Spirit of that Sacred Symbol.

The American People and the U.S. media to express a heartfelt apology to France for the malicious, misinformed ingratitude expressed by so many in this country. I ask this because it is important for France to understand that Bush's profound ignorance, ingratitude, demagoguery and neurotic hysterics do NOT represent the viewpoint of most honest, lucid, intelligent, educated citizens in this country.

I humbly appoligize to the people of France for the absurdly ridiculous nonsense being spewed against them by the nationalistic morons who are so vocal here in the United States. The invective they are casting against both you and the people of Germany is unexcusable.
Please know that many (if not most) Americans are disgusted by this horrid behaviour, and have no doubt of your allegiance to what is right.
Please, please, do not stop objecting to the criminal march towards war by those who stole power over our nation in an unelected coup. Do not hesitate to veto their proposals in the UNSC, or to demand they be charged for war crimes if/when they go ahead with their unprovoked attack on the innocent citizens of Iraq.
Unfortunately, our rather flawed system of government does not currently provide a simple way for us to escape this national tragedy, and remove these warmongers from power. We depend on you (again, as in our nation's founding) to help us in our quest for democracy. Hopefully soon we will escape the grip of fascism and return to a place in the civilized world.

Dear France:

I would like to most humbly apologize on behalf of certain citizens of my country.
Please believe me when I say there are many of us here in the United States of America who:
1 do not support the pending war
2 do not like the way our government is behaving
3 think the idea of removing the word "French" from our vocabulary to exchange it for "freedom" is the stupidest thing they heard since GWB was announced president
4 believe you bathe as often as you find needful
have no problem with people eating cheese or snails
5 remember you saved our butts in the Revolutionary War
6 remember you didn't acknowledge the Confederate States during our Civil War
7 thank you for the Statue of Liberty
8 will not indulge in government-sponsored bashing of your nation
9 would book a trip to your fair nation on general principle if they had the money.
10 remember you ran one hell of an underground operation getting lots of folks out from Nazi rule during WWII.

THE LIST IS ENDLESS.

Rosbif Killer, despite all your CAPITALS I have no idea what you're trying to say here or what it has to do with French attitudes to Hamas.

Forgot to take our medicine again, have we?

Rosbif Killer,

Thanks for your supporting post.

It will warm the heart of every French people participating or just reading this site.

The Republicanazis warmongers must be fought and defeated.
I have a lot of hope in the next election, I really hope the Democrats won't be stolen victory again.

Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld : Go to Hell !

Here is the French thinking:
Of course Hamas and Hezzbuallah and Islamic Jihad are terrorist org. But their only Killing Jews.
Theres a price to be paid for backing Nazis. We wont forget or forgive.

SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.

ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.

CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.

HAITI 1891 Troops Black workers revolt on U.S.-claimed Navassa Island defeated.

IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.

HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.

NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA 1899(-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.

IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.

HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REP. 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua.

PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in Havanna.

PANAMA 19l2 Troops Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS 19l2 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 20-year occupation, fought guerrillas.

MEXICO 19l3 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.

MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.

HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.

CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.

WORLD WAR I 19l7-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany

RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.

PANAMA 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections.

YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.

WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.

TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna (Izmir).

CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.

HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.

PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.

CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships sent during Faribundo Marti revolt.

WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear Fought Axis for 3 years; Over 200,000 civilian casualties in 1st nuclear strikes.

DETROIT 1943 Troops Army puts down Black rebellion.

IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian Azerbaijan).

YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Naval Response to shooting-down of U.S. plane.

URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.

CHINA 1948-49 Troops Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

GERMANY 1948 Nuclear threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

KOREA 1950-53 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, & vs. China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN 1953 Command operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat Bombs offered to French to use against siege.

GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; marines evacuate foreigners.

LEBANON 1958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels.

IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA 1958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM 1960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; 1-2 million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in 1968 and 1969.

CUBA 1961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY 1961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

CUBA 1962 Nuclear threat Naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with USSR.

LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.

PANAMA 1964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA 1965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA 1966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

DETROIT 1967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.

UNITED STATES 1968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

CAMBODIA 1969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN 1970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS 1971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA 1973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.

CAMBODIA 1975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.

ANGOLA 1976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN 1980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA 1981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR 1981-92 Command operation, troop advisors, overflight aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA 1981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON 1982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim and Syrian positions.

HONDURAS 1983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

GRENADA 1983-84 Troops, bombing invasion four years after revolution.

IRAN 1984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA 1986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN 1987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA 1989-90 Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait; 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ 1990-1992 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.

SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval Nato blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA 1993-95 Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI 1994-96 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

CROATIA 1995 Bombing Krajina Serb airfields attacked before Croatian offensive.

ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant. Over 30, 000 civilian casualties. US blocks UN war-crimes inquiry at the security council.

AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ 1998-2003 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors alleged Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA 1999. Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo.

YEMEN 2000 Naval Suicide bomb attack on USS Cole.

MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.

UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Response to hijacking attacks.

AFGHANISTAN 2001 Massive U.S. mobilization to attack Taliban, Bin Laden.

IRAQ 2003. Occupation with the pretext of existence of "mass destruction weapons". No mass destruction weapons found. Mocked France, its oldest & most courageous ally.

Killer I note you haven't included any address for these letters of Americans against the war. Why would that be? Perhaps because they would be from the same Saudi nationals who have infested Dearborn and Florida University. If you doubt how real Americans feel about France check your export statistics. No government agency has Boycotted French product. No tariff was imposed. Just good old Americans recognizing rats and voting with their dollars.
Also I notice you have no comment about the dead frogs in the Ivory Coast quagmire. Tell me was this action of French Suppression and Imperialism mandated by the U.N. or is it The Law Of The Jungle?

Your choice.

Just don't be like France. Their government committed to one side while playing lip service to the other.

Just one question: what about saud arabia and the US?
How many saud arabian in the plane for 9/11?

Just look at yourself first. What the heck are you doing in Iraq, that's what most French people ask themselves? Saddam was an atrocious dictator, but the war on terrorism was not there (it is now), it was in saud arabia and Pakistan. The former have the money for the martyrs, and about the latter, well, there is Bin laden, and loads of WMD in the hands of islamist (islamist scientist).
Any action from the US? None. A good pat on the shoulder.

And Hamas are a terrorist group, nobody doubts about that. And it's not what says a unknown French diplomat which will change that.

When the unknown diplomat speaks the French position on world events no matter that you, with your head buried in the cheese, don't know him. If he is a rouge element then, why have the French big names deniged his assertion or changed French policy to reflect the error?

You been drinking your Jihad soda today?

Now, if I as without a life, I could write a very long list of French atrocities just as long (plus German, Japinese, Birtish, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Cambodian, Arab, Jewish, Polish, Indian, ect). The point, nobody is perfect. Especially governments. America tried isolationism once and we wound up in WW II, which was harder to fight because of it. We tried to help prevent WW III, and wound up in Vietnam. So, should what is a 'bad country'? One that opeanly kills millions of it's people through a government program, as a mater of policy. One might argue the USA was one such (due to racisim and slavery), but then again, nobody is innocent of such practices. We fought a civil war ofer slavery, and then had a huge fight to end racism. It's not ended yet, but then again, where is it ended?

Now I would like to talk about the "stolen election". First- the US constitution states that the president is not chosen by popular vote, but bu a proportional electorial vote from the states (each state getting a number of votes according to the size of it's population.)
Second- With the exception of Florida, each canidate had a pretty much equal number of electorial votes.
Third- Florida's popular vote (used to determine the direction of the electorial vote) was pretty much tied, leading to an automatic re-count (Bush won both of these counts)
Fourth- The Gore campaing sued to have votes in CERTAIN COUNTIES re-counted by hand.
Fith- The infamous Supreme court case DID NOT say that Bush won. It stated that a Florida hand recound would have to be statewide, and that there was not enough time for a statewide hand recount, according to the dates specified in the constitution.
Sixth- Bush won the hand recount done by the newspapers after the fact (he would have won the recount asked for by the Gore campaign).

2/ "Japan was at that very moment seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'... It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." (General Eisenhower).

Then he was wrong. They had no intention of surrendering and there is NO way they could have surrendered without losing face.

In fact even after the bomb military elements attempted to stage a coup and continue the war rather than let the emperor surrender.

We also know, according to Hirohito himself, that there was going to be NO surrender until the second bomb was dropped. It took the second atomic bomb to finally convince him to surrender, and even then it was a narrow thing.

Kal

Killer you want to be American don't you? Come on admit it. You live, eat, breath, and sleep, American. Either that or you have been compiling your list since before the Iraqi invasion.
Your 6 months late. Move on!

We are talking about Islamic terrorism now.

To say that, OK, Hamas are terrorists, but we can't call them that because we want to negotiate with them, is typical of the kind of twisted reasoning only the French can come up with.

The US does the same thing. Both countries seek to push their own national interests. No big deal until those interests conflict with the interests of others.

Kal

10 remember you ran one hell of an underground operation getting lots of folks out from Nazi rule during WWII.

Actually you should thank the British for that. Without them there would have been no resistance, and there would have been no change of allegiance in the Americas from Vichy to Free France.

As to their assistance in the Revolutionary war, I'd like to thank the King of France for that too. I'd like to thank that France, but it is gone. I have no intention of thanking them for only allying with us after we started winning battles late in the war.

Kal

Rosbif Killer, despite all your CAPITALS I have no idea what you're trying to say here or what it has to do with French attitudes to Hamas.

He's merely pointing out that when given a choice between their own country and the allies of an enemy nation he chooses the allies of that enemy nation.

Kal

Mocked France, its oldest & most courageous ally.

BS. If you knew jack about France's support of the US you'd know how false that was.

You'd know that in the First Gulf War the French forces were not allowed to participate in the attack on Iraqi forces (by the French government). They did defend the flank of those defending the American flank. A position they were given so they could say they participated without having to disobey their government to do it.

In Afghanistan they disobeyed orders during Operation Anaconda and turned their aircraft back from the preparation attacks they had been assigned.

Recently in Iraq they actively worked against the US. All the while claiming moral high-ground when in reality it was all about their own oil contracts with Saddam Hussein.

As to our 'oldest' ally, I'd say Britain has been a far more steadfast ally longer than France has, unless you mean the Kingdom of France, at which point I'll remind you that the France of today has more in common with those who killed our first ally than with that first ally.

Kal

Saddam was an atrocious dictator, but the war on terrorism was not there (it is now), it was in saud arabia and Pakistan.

It was there, unless you don't consider Hamas, the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade and others, to be terrorist organizations. It is in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. It's also in Indonesia, Iran, Algiers, and just about every Muslim country in the world. From what we've seen it exists in France, the US, Britain and Germany in concentrations of Muslim populations and Mosques.

In Iraq today, however, they're on the run, hiding, and killing less American soldiers every day than are dying from accidents.

Iraq supported terrorist organizations, that's a fact. Did he work with or support Al-Qaeda? No one has proven one way or the other that question, but the former is fact. That was Iraq's government's formal position. Such is not true with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Kal

Unitedstatish are complaining that France has "obstructed" the disarming of Iraq because of economic industrial ties between France and Iraq. Admittedly Iraq owes France 9 billion dollars for past trade and France is afraid of losing its investment money. This may be true, but rings hollow in view of the fact that the US offered Turkey a reported package of $ 30 billion just to allow Turkish soil to be used as a staging area for the invasion. It would be no problem for the US to offer that $30 billion to France, except that the French would have turned down. Obviously, more is at play here. The French are more concerned about strategic matters than financial ones (& so are the Germans, Russians & Chinese). The US is now working on a policy of control of strategic resources (Middle East and Central Asian oil) that ultimately serve Unitedstatish interests. These other nations know that competition for future resources may bring strategic (not just financial) differences with the US over the course of this new century, and these nations are growing to the realisation that US interests may pose a long-term threat to their own security and well-being. And they are finding out that they cannot trust the US to resolve those differences diplomatically. And so vindicated "obstructionism" results. But, let's take this a step further. Iraq HAS largely fulfilled the requirements of resolution n° 1441. At least, they have produced tens of thousands of pages of documents that claim disarmament. Under pressure from the US and the UN, they had begun to allow interviews of their scientists. They began destroying missiles that were not weapons of mass destruction, but were still in violation of certain sanctions. So, if the US wanted to claim violation of the resolution, proof was needed before civilised nations led by France would authorise war. Proof was not provided and war was not authorised. The Iraqis still claim to not have weapons of mass destruction, have not used them against the invading forces and no one can prove that the case for war was ever justified.

But what about other, UN resolutions? What about resolutions calling for Israel to move back to the pre-1967 borders and give up the illegally occupied territories gained by warfare against Palestine? There is no denial that those resolutions were passed by the UN. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Israelis have not complied. There is no doubt whatsoever that the results have been disastrous for the Middle East and the World. There is no doubt that the US has deliberately obstructed implementation of those resolutions, while Israel has engaged in violent, terrorist actions against the occupied population, leading to resistance to the illegal occupation by Palestinians in the form of violent resistance. If anything, the US should be leading military action to liberate the Palestinians from illegal occupation by Israel. If anything, the US should disarm Israel from its programmes of weapons of mass destruction. If anything, the US should work with the UN (including France & Europe) to solve the Palestinian issue by forcing compliance by Israel with UN resolutions and international law. But the US does obstruct the UN and justice and stands squarely in the way of peace in the Middle East. The Arabs all know this, and so do the Europeans. Innocent people continue to die in droves, including young Unitedstatish girls who get run over by Israeli bulldozers trying to stop the madness of Sharon the Butcher.

France has an excuse for what the US deems her "obstructionism", and that is that the US has utterly failed to demonstrate violation of the UN resolutions on Iraq, nor has it demonstrated a legitimate case for war. Resolution n° 1441 does not legitimise war; it would not have been passed if it had. Remember, the French and Germans and other UN members were very careful in negotiating the wording of that resolution so as to avoid any wording that would authorise unilateral war by the US.

In contrast, the US has joined the Israelis in violating UN resolutions for which there is abundant proof. The US has armed Israel and financed its aggression and turned its head to repeated, regular human violations and violations of international law. Israel routinely uses torture on its captives. Israel routinely imprisons people without charge and without conviction of any crime. Israel routinely violates the human rights of its Arab population and even more so the Palestinian population -- leading to a sought-after cycle of violence that is self-perpetuating.

The single most significant solution possible for Middle Eastern problems would be to force Israel back to the pre-1967 borders, in combination with a declaration of Israel's right to existence by the Palestinian authorities, which as already occurred.

This Israeli/Palestine conundrum is at the heart of other problems in the Middle East, including the arming of Iraq. Solving this problem and ending the obstructionism by the US regarding Israel would be like cutting a big knot that then would begin to unravel all sorts of interrelated issues.

Let me cut through the reams of Blah blah blah left by the frog below and cut right to the kernal of his post. The middle east situation would be solved if:
A) Americans would accept that its really our fault Muslims destroyed the World Trade Center.
B) the Israeli Jews would just get in the ovens.

Mr./Ms. 'US hypocritical double standards' said:
"If anything, the US should be leading military action to liberate the Palestinians from illegal occupation by Israel. If anything, the US should disarm Israel from its programmes of weapons of mass destruction. If anything, the US should work with the UN (including France & Europe) to solve the Palestinian issue by forcing compliance by Israel with UN resolutions and international law. But the US does obstruct the UN and justice and stands squarely in the way of peace in the Middle East. The Arabs all know this, and so do the Europeans."

How would that liberation of Palestine look like? What would happen to the Jews? What kind of Middle East do you envision? What kind of world? What should the UN do with the United States? Please elaborate.

This emerging coalition between Euro-nazis and Arab fascists is one of the reasons I'm fleeing Europe for New York, the greatest city in the world.

Following is a copy of a message I sent to someone that made similar claims as "US hypocritical..." did. I've omitted a couple of paragraphs that would identify the recipient or that were not relevant to this discussion. my apologies to everyone for the length.

"The statement that the U.S. is being two-faced in trying to enforce the Security Council's resolutions against Iraq while ignoring Israel's own breaches has been repeated so often that it has become accepted as fact. Not so!

There are two different types of Security Council resolutions relevant to this discussion. Chapter VII resolutions impose specific obligations on the affected country and give the UN the power to take action, including war, to deal with non-compliance. All 17 resolutions dealing with Iraq have been under Chapter VII.

All the resolutions dealing with Israel have been under Chapter VI which deal with the peaceful resolution of disputes, usually through negotiation, and entitle the council to make non-binding recommendations but not war nor the imposition of sanctions. IOW Chapter VII resolutions are binding on all UN members, those under Chapter VI are not.

Critics of Israel often cite resolution 242 as an example of the double-standard argument. The problem is that 242 does not say what they say it does. Resolution 242 (also known as the "land for peace" resolution) calls for Israel to return territories (not necessarily all) captured during the 1967 war. What is usually not mentioned is that in return the Arabs must recognize Israel's "right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force". Also not usually mentioned is that Israel accepted the resolution. It took Egypt 12 years to finally agree to negotiations at which time the Sinai peninsula was returned to them. ... It took the PLO 20 years to grudgingly agree to negotiate.

Under the Oslo accord, negotiated under 242, the West Bank and Gaza would become the state of Palestine; the two areas would be linked by a raised highway with free and unimpeded use guaranteed by Israel; East Jerusalem would become the capital of Palestine; and the Palestinians would receive US$30 billion as compensation for the 1948 refugee problem. In return the Palestinians were to agree to live in peace with Israel and to recognize her right to exist. Israel started withdrawing from the territories when it seemed that the negotiations were all but concluded. Then Arafat repudiated what had been negotiated so far and the second intifada started. Israelis started moving back in to the Palestinian areas and we all know what has happened since then. Consider this statement that Arafat made in a 1994 speech in a mosque in South Africa: "This agreement (the Oslo accord) I am not considering it more than the agreement which had been signed between our prophet Muhammed and Koraish." To understand what this means you would have to know that back in the 7th century the Prophet Muhammed, facing defeat, negotiated a ten-year ceasefire with the arabian Kordaish tribe. Two years later, when he had put together a strong enough army, he broke the agreement and annihilated them.

It breaks my heart to see the killing of innocents on both sides of the conflict but be especially careful of any reports or claims coming out of the Palestinian areas. A little known fact is that all photos and all news footage shot in the West Bank and Gaza are by Palestinian photographers. If you're a western reporter you must use photos and footage given to you by the Palestinian Authority. ...

At the best of times it's best to treat news, from whatever source, with some skepticism. When it comes to the Middle East it pays to have your bs meter working at peak efficiency. And yes, that includes this letter if you feel so inclined. Go ahead and dig up your own information and educate yourself on the issues but be careful to differentiate between opinion and fact (not always easy to do)."

US hypocritical double standards:

Admittedly Iraq owes France 9 billion dollars for past trade and France is afraid of losing its investment money. This may be true, but rings hollow in view of the fact that the US offered Turkey a reported package of $ 30 billion just to allow Turkish soil to be used as a staging area for the invasion. It would be no problem for the US to offer that $30 billion to France, except that the French would have turned down.......................
These other nations know that competition for future resources may bring strategic (not just financial) differences with the US over the course of this new century

Seems realistic, I think we can forget the first level "all about oil" yelled from both side to the other. Just a simplist try to get easy popular support by showing how bad they are on the other side.

The goodies got to Dick Cheney and others through Bechtel and Aliburton are just periheral oportunities and not "central" cause.

Let's forget the threat of WMD, even Donald Rumsfeld who is not exactly a "lll" admits it was more a way to obtain UN acceptation than confirmed threat.

Then, remain :
1) oil strategy
2) war to terrorism.

Is it 1 OR 2 ? More probably 2 and by consequence 1.

Just one question: what about saud arabia and the US?
How many saud arabian in the plane for 9/11?

Saud arabia comes over and over in the discussions about terrorism. In almost all big terrorist actions, some saud arabian are involved, almost all terrorist factions get their funds from there.
At the same time, one buy oil in Venezuela, others in Norway, others in Iraq (some times ago...) but EVERYBODY BUY IN SAUD ARABIA which has the largest proven ressources with 25 %.
At the same time, prices are ruled directly by OPEC or by consequence for producer like Mexico, USA, Norway, Russia who are not OPEC members. As larger producer, Saud Arabia is by fact at he kernel of all OPEC decisions. They lead the oil market

This was fantastic for America as long as Saud Arabia and US where strongly allied (despite the integrism of waabbism). But since 9/11, America had to look and see the truth.

Who want to get rid of wasps should rather destroy the nest rather than the wasps flying around.

This make oil strategy an essential part of war on terrorism. Ryad is THE central place where is located the vital "money pump" for islam fundamendalism.

Then, weakening OPEC or Saudian influence on OPEC becomes a central target in war againt terrorism. Money is the nerve of war.

What is the link with Iraq ?
May be, with 11 % of proven ressources added to the 8 % of kuwait, USA aimed to shift the the oil decision center on countries they would have under better control ? If so, obviously, such strategy can just be built "under the table" and can't be officialy invoked

Does US plane an attack on Saud Arabia or rather a self-collapse caused by the loss of influence, then income ?
Was Iraq war a wise move in this war on terrrism or a big error ?
Did US choose the war to be more efficient against terrorism or rather to gain strategic power ?
What was the REAL place of humanitarian consideration of freedom and democracy in Iraq while nobody care about it in Birmania, North-Corea and so many others ?

Theses questions are interesting off course, but today they became secondary or outdated by the current situation. Americans and (old)Europeans can "fall in love" or loath each other as much as they like, by fact, facing fundamentalist's goals and methods, THEY ARE ON THE SAME SIDE.
It is URGENT to find our way, make the necessary concessions on both side to reconnect and fight successfully to beat terrorism.
We shall have plenty of time after to go back into our small squirmish and ressentment.

Is this new below a hope ?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20030828/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_un

It always cracks me up when a Frenchman blasts America for atrocities. And this from a country that waged war for hundreds of years against its neighbors, against muslims, against protestants, against Algerians, against the Vietnamese, created Devil's Island, had the Reign of Terror, tried to conquer Europe under Bonaparte, screwed up west Africa, got their asses handed to them in two World Wars, allowed the citizens of the United States to subsudize their defense during the Cold War with American tax dollars and then opted out of NATO, is rife with facisma and anti-semitism, they never met a dictator that it did not enjoy having a circle jerk with, and let their elderly die in the thousands because they are on vacation.

The French should be ashamed of what effect their behavior had on the lives of regular Iraqis. Thousands died at the hands of a killer that the French coddled for money.

The French are not deserving of any respect whatsoever.

You should be ashamed, you hypocritical assholes. You are deserving of your fate. You had better buff up on the Koran, you're going to need it. Because you motherfuckers are on your on.

A campaign of deceit, lies, demagoguery, arm-twisting and bribery...

[What followed was a long off-topic cut-and-pasted screed. It has been deleted. Do not weep for the loss. If you must see it, it can be found here in its entirety.

The Management]

About those palistinian deaths- it appears that the cycle goes like this: Peace agreement, followed by attack on Israeli women and children, followed by Israel attacking militants, followed by the world condeming Israel, repeat. As one had said, the whole problem would be solved if only those darn jews would get into the ovens

Mr. Levis,
Would you care to argue your claim about Mr. Bush's presidency being illigitimate? I put up a post here earlier, and you have yet to back up your claim, or present your own facts. I really would like to get this out of the way, you know, as I'm kind of tired of hearing this factless claim.

Hey, "Truth Hurts":

Firas Al-Atraqchi wrote the piece you pasted. It's probably a good thing you didn't give him credit for writing it, since a quick google search shows his writings primarily on sites like yellowtimes and indymedia. Not sites known for good scholarship, though they are known for their anti-American stance and their support of Stalinist front groups.

Gotta love it. I should say thank you for introducing me, through your multiple pastings under different names, to the interesting world of fifth-column front groups. I've learned more about Indymedia from you than anyone could reading LGF. So thanks. I appreciate the education on the idiocy you've pasted and your inability to make any point of your own.

Kal

Allow me, first, to express my gratitude for the invitation...

[What followed was a long off-topic cut-and-pasted screed. It has been deleted. Do not weep for the loss. If you must see it, it can be found here in its entirety.

The Management]

...And we thank Switzerland for it's continued assistance in helping us to launder our billions of dollars skimmed from foriegn aid and development money. Please loan us more, but don ask us to support you, or change for the better, or even pay you back.

Hey alphabet troll, I'm sure Chissano appreciates you spreading his words, but try to cut from a better format next time.

Kal

How do you know when you're winning? When the trolls can't do anything but cut-and-paste arguments and articles that have been repeatedly debunked and shot down a looooooooong time ago.

And as for the moronic idiot who asked "Remember that little place called palistine?" No. I don't. And I challange you to find a map of palistine prior to WWII. Go ahead, I'll be waiting, you brain-dead piece of shit. There is no palistine, and there are no palistinians. The "palestinians" are nothing but arabs who aren't part of the other (read: larger) groups. Arafat is Egyptian. He was born in Cairo. He's no more a palestinian than I am. But it's a great excuse for him to blow up jewish kids.

Piss off. Palistine is a pipe-dream.

Raging Dave,

Palistine exists under this name since -1175....

I won't even take 5 seconds to copy-paste a link y to a map "prior to WWII" , find yourself.
Try google....