Remember all those cemetery desecrations? Remember how the police said "such acts of vandalism were common during school holidays"?

Well, school holidays are over, and some adults are busy filling the void their now-back-to-school kids may have left.

Unknown vandals overturned and smashed crosses on more than 100 graves overnight in a cemetery near the southwestern city of Bordeaux, police said on Tuesday.

About 120 objects -- crosses, commemorative plaques and other graveside objects -- were moved from the 100 or so graves and half of them destroyed, said police, who have launched an official inquiry.

The vandals left few clues for investigators, except a few empty alcohol and soft drink bottles near the cemetery's central monument and a few footprints.
"It was not children who did this," Rousselot [mayor of the small town of Cadaujac] said.

According to TV reports, only crosses have been broken and there was not a single clue pointing out a possible satanic act. No one claimed responsibility so far.

Is it just for fun? I mean, what are they trying to prove or do exactly?

An estimated 15,000 people have just died from the heat wave, 57 of them have not been claimed by any member of their families and some people still find the time and heart to desecrate cemeteries... What for? To make some room?
Wake up France! Do something! It happens right now, before your very eyes.

Gautier,

We're talking about France here.

No thanks for deleting my post.

I just explained that cemeteries desecrations occurs everywhere, not only in France.

If saying that is censored, just tell me where is the freedom of expression here. My post was not insulting, neither irrelevant nor in French. Will you only accept posts from American France-bashers ?

UGH! Typical of people with nothing to do and time on their hands. What these kids, or anti-Christian bigots need is a swift kick and some HARSH discipline. I for one would put all of them through 12 weeks of USMC boot camp...but I don't think our Devil Dogs would take them!
Anyway its time for people to accept the fact that unless your a muslim, atheist, communist (Which goes hand and hand with commie), socialist, agnostic or buddhist, Taoist, or Pagan worshipper of Gaiia the Earth Mother you will be insulted pilloried and reviled. But Christ said though wicked men insult and hate you all because of me, blessed are you. (I am paraphrasing). I feel pretty confident in that.

Gautier,

By "freedom of expression" do you mean saying whatever is on your mind? Anything, anytime?

We never pretended at Pave France that what is happening in France (in this case, cemetery desecrations) isn't happening elsewhere. The discussion here, though, is about France and not about what happens elsewhere.

Giving links to cemetery desecrations that happened elsewhere won't change the fact that in France it happens a lot. It happens too much and it is spread all over the country. This is what we're talking about.

So your links were irrelevant to the topic, which was not desecrations but desecrations in France.

You know, a little discipline is needed for a good argumentation. Discipline sometimes has to be learnt the hard way (in your case, the deletion of your comment). But in the end, it's for your own good, you know.

So stop whining about censorship. You're not being censored, you're being taught how to be relevant. Just avoid to be hors sujet. Again, this blog is called Pave France for a reason. If you can't handle it, you also have the freedom to leave ;)

So, do you have something to say about the wave of cemetery desecrations that took place in France over the last 9 months or so? I'd like to know what you have to say about it.

If you can't handle it, you also have the freedom to leave ;)
I think Mr Mercer and Kemparsky will be very happy that every people leave log one after the other.
They count on some opposition to inflame the debates, increase number of visits.

You tell this opposition to leave ?
So, this site will die.

Except this, there's nothing to say about cemetaries desecration that has not be told,it's at least the 6th topic about cemetaries desecration.
so,The guilty men must be heavily punished, and serious investigations must be made. We must certainly strenghten the repression in France, it seems that it is not enough dissiuasive , and some morons are happy to operate as they want in cemetaries. It must stop.

it's at least the 6th topic about cemetaries desecration.

That's the problem, precisely.

And next time you decide you can talk on behalf of others, like you just did for M. Krempasky and J. Mercer, try at least to spell their name correctly. Or is it still too much to ask of you?

Thank you Marc, You summed up very well what I was about to write.

I'm the opposition and I leave. It's useless to post here.

I would rather think grave desecrations are not politically motivated until it is proven otherwise.
-- But this I can say. Dead men tell no tales. These were the acts of the worst kind of a coward.

15,000 my God

Everywhere? If knocking down crosses in graveyards is so common than why have we not heard of it being done in Italy? Plenty of white crosses there to smash. Maybe Italy should close the border with France?

15,000! Please, this is some sick joke! 13,000 was almost beyond comprehension, but 15,000? What malaise has seized France that this can be accepted so calmly?!

Again, to the ones who suffered this dreadful fate and to the caring families, my respects and sympathy.

Next people will be complaining about the reports of anti-Semitism and harrassment of Jewish people in France. Does it happen here? Again Carine deemed it fit to remind others that this a place where we discuss the events in France and our (us) "relationship" with this "ally".
I would agree with JM that we don't know what motivated the desicrations but ones earlier this year were apparently politically motivaed since it happened at allied Cemeteries and there were vulgarities left along with the smashed tombstones. Perhaps some are or are not.
However, this doesn't happen here in the US accept in some places and its not wide spread. But in Frogystan (I had to use that as I find it highly amusing.) it is wide spread and appears to have a pattern to it. Doesn't mean it all comes from the same motivations but why is it happening at all?
At any rate there were allied cemeteries desecrated at the start of the Iraq conflict and the motivations were clear then.

> 15,000 my God

> 15,000! Please, this is some sick joke! 13,000 > was almost beyond comprehension, but 15,000?
> What malaise has seized France that this can be > accepted so calmly?!

Please, the topic is desecrations in France.

:-)

aouch...
and it's also about heat wave, it's right, it's in the topic too. sorry.

:-)

desecrating graves... WHY ?

EVERYBODY need to feel "important" by time.

Most people think "if it make a big fuss, it it's written on newspaper and shown on tv, it is important"

Such result by BUILDING, CREATING is out of range for most of us.
Such result by DESTRUCTION is possible for any a$$hole...

Nothing else to tell about that new.

Carine, you are worying about

the wave of cemetery desecrations that took place in France over the last 9 months or so?

But are you sure that there are more cemetery desecrations recently ? or simply is n't it just the fact it is more loudly notified in all media ?

Are you sure it is typical of "Frogystan" ? or simply are you more impressed by these ones ? Maybe in this matter, showing that it happends all over the world like did Gautier was not so irrelevant ? to apreciate something, comparison are necessary.

Now what to do about this ? a while ago, a new type of juridical penality was settled called "Travaux d'intérêt Général". It seems to be exactly what should fit to the @¤!! playing such games. For example rebuild and quicker than this what they destroyed. And as much as possible AVOID ANY BIG NOISE IN THE MEDIA.

1) No big fuss => No satisfaction, no "importance"
2) Additional unpayed work is an efficient punishment.
3) Might be utopic but I think it can give those guys an occasion to learn that some satisfaction can come from constructive work.

@12c4

Someone got Pierre's goat today didn't they?
If desecrations were happening here in the USA on a wide bent wave like they are in Frogystan we would be hearing about it. In fact I could see Rick Leventhal standing at Arlington now with a FOX news truck talking about massive destruction. However this has and will not occur, in Frogystan it has....our question is why?

We have a Graveyard in Sacramento that is adjacent to rent control housing tracts. It is vandalized sometimes . Not as many tombstones are knocked over as in this report from France. Usually once every two or three years we get a report of 5 or 10 kicked over (with an equal amount of empty beercans scattered about).

I would expect some one to hear and report such a party as must have been had during 120 tombs vandalized. - And there is the rub. This incident must have taken at least an hour maybe more. And yet no one phones the police to report the racket?

It must be so terrible for the families of the 15,000 that died because of the heat. What an awful tragedy. People must be heart broken and very angry. I would be.

Hopefully procedures will be put into place so this never happens again. The families should demand that health care people stagger their vacation times so the various health centers are fully staffed, even in the summer. It's crazy that so many were away all at the same time.

Came across something yesterday from Paul Baepler's edited anthology "White Slaves, AFrican Masters" accounts of American Barbary Captives...the quote is from a sermon made by Cotton Mather's, "The Glory of Goodness" year 1703... (see pg 64-65 university of chicago press edition for full quote, shortened here...)
"An ENGLISH-MAN and a FRENCH-MAN were taken, endevouring an Escape...(they) were taken up to Macqueness in Irons, before the Emperor, who by the Moors was informed what was done. The Emperor...told them if they would not immediately turn Moors, he would kill them.
The FRENCH-MAN yielded;
the Emperour then threatened the ENGLISH-MAN, if did not turn, he would quickly kill him...(the englishman) said, HE was brought up in the Faith of Jesus Christ, and he would not forsake it..."

So, nothing new under the sun. The Barbary Wars are incredibly relevant to today...What will France do when the sword is placed at her throat and she is told to choose? And do we doubt at this time that the terrible sword is being sharpened just for such a thing? Will she yield and be lost? If the French do not have faith in the true God, they will always yield for there is no higher purpose. (and it won't just be the French yielding either ... let's not get too superior - few people can face the end of a gun or a sword and still do the right thing.)

To Cozmogirl :
"In September 1997 150 tombstones were overturned and seven were defaced with swastikas at a Jewish cemetery in Staten Island, New York. It was the seventh incident at the cemetery since the previous June."
Clic on my name to get the link

PS : Hope this time my post won't be removed by Carine as irrelevant

PPS : On that sad birthay I pray for those who perished on September 11, 2001.

Hey Gautier, or whatever your Frogystan name is,
I didn't say it didn't happen here. DUH! Read my post, or are you capable of reading plain English, you know the international language everyone needs to know now days...sort of replaced French a while back....
I didn't say it didn't happen, moron, I said it wasn't nearly as wide spread and had you read what I said you would have known that...god what an idiot.
And secondly, it happens here so according to a Frenchie and everything in Frogystan being relitive if it happens here then its ok to see a British war cemetery from the Great War desecrated. ARE YOU ON CRACK? In what world did you learn that logic because it doesn't jobe with any western thought..oh yes Islamic extremists live in a world of moral relitivism....is that what your now teaching French school children?
Is there no accountability in France at all?
Please tell me why anyone in their right mind would justify the desecration of any cemetery anywhere. Heck it happened in my home town, college students caught and butts were kicked. People held accountable.
Now you can explain the world of amorality you live in....your lack of accountability is staggering. One wonders how anything right ever happens when the French are out and about.
This moral decay sickens me to the very bones.

So the fact that it happened here once makes it ok in France then? The point of this thread is to point out the barbarity that is become more and more evident from France. If you have evidence that it is just a few people - a spliter group - doing this, then please present it.

We (the American people) would love to see a "French Resistance" stand up to the visible French attitude which says "Whatever the United States is for, we are against; Whatever the United States is against, we are for."

Whatever the United States is for, we are against; Whatever the United States is against, we are for

It's not the case, we were with you in afghanistan, and we fully collaborate on the anti-terrorism issues.
It's more a question of "we won't follow you everywhere you go if we think it's a bad idea".

Its more a question of "We won't follow you anywhere if we are already in bed with the brutal, blood-soaked dictator in question to the tune of billions of Euros."

You cannot deny this, as much as you try, for France, it was always about the oil. Maybe not for you peasants, but for the leaders who know that they have to keep you in long vacations and protect your early retirement or be thrown out, it was always about the oil.

God, Papa Frog..GO AWAY!
Your mouth and ignorance are lost on American's right now.
Its September 11, 2003. 2 years ago this very day certain people here on this blog who know who they are and witnessed something AWEFUL!
We went to Iraq because we want to make sure September 11, 2001 is the most aweful thing we ever have to remember.
The Iraqis whether you wanna believe this or not or have your head up your hind end had according to almost every intelligence agency and expert the world largest supply of WMDS. That is a no s### statement. But, somehown your hatred of America, her God fearing President (Who is I am happy to say a COWBOY! God bless his soul!) and your love of Saddam has somehow tossed you into the arms of Bin Laden, Mullah Omar and that maggot infested former dictator Saddam.
Your not on our side in this war on terror. If you were you would have your middle eastern guests tow the line, protect your Jewish citizens and stand with US when we went into Iraq. I can see Papa barf bag and his Frogystan buddies dancing at every mention of American soldiers and Marines getting killed or hurt. You love it. You loved it when the WTC went down, somehow it validated your corrupt psyches.
As for me, we go it alone. We don't need you, want you, stay home and cry in your Cafe Auliet. Your not worth the air you breath when you make bigoted nasty anti-American remarks against our President and the nation he leads. Love me love my President.

moptop,

You cannot deny this, as much as you try, for France, it was always about the oil.
Don't play the cheap tune of oil because it can be used in the other way.
Better explain me what's next in the war of terror because I can't really see clear the big picture. Once Irak is stabilized in a nice democracy with the benediction of the mullahs, what's next?

And respect the peasants, they put the food in your plate.

Better explain me what's next in the war of terror because I can't really see clear the big picture. Once Irak is stabilized in a nice democracy with the benediction of the mullahs, what's next?

Probably Iran and North Korea, though perhaps not with military force. Syria, Saudi Arabia and Lebannon. Not necessarily in that order and, again, not necessarily using military forces.

And respect the peasants, they put the food in your plate.

Not in the US. In the US farmers, ranchers and dairymen put the food on our plate. The only people here who consider them peasants are the same ones who think "cowboy" is some kind of insult.

Kal

Hey Papa Frog,
I would dare you to call my rancher cousins in Greely Colorado, there for generations, peasents.
I think Jim, Mike and Dan would probably launch you off the ends of their work boots or find the nastiest cow pony and let her settle your class warfare hash. I would pay money to see it to....
Papa Frog riding a cow pony with an attitude....
Never stay on....
See its called pride....we have pride in America, from the beauty of the land, the industriousness of the people and our form of Government..(while its not perfect and no form of Gov. ever will be I doubt there will ever be anything better to come along till He comes back) Pride is something the French don't have...having lost their dignity time and time again to the Germans...ha ha ha...
(And that is a fact!)