From J Taranto's WSJ Opinion Journal...Dizzying, isn't it? Looks like the blame is going to get spread so thin that no one will see it anymore.

Plenty of Blame to Go Around

"Report Blames Bureaucracy in Heat Deaths"--headline, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sept. 9
"Medical System Blamed in France's Killer Heat Wave"--headline, Charleston (S.C.) Post and Courier, Sept. 9
"Absent Doctors Blamed for French Heat Wave Deaths"--headline, San Mateo County (Calif.) Times, Sept. 9
"France Blames Heat Deaths on Hospitals "--headline, Associated Press, Sept. 8
"Pollution Cited as Factor in French Heat Deaths"--headline, Associated Press, Sept. 1
"Blame Shifts to Families in Heatwave Deaths"--headline, Washington Times, Sept. 1
"Dennis Prager: Socialism Kills--France and Beyond"--headline, Chronwatch.com, Sept. 3
"French Capitalism Kills 12,000 During Heat Wave, Paris Blames 'Mother Nature' "--headline, The Militant, Sept. 22 issue

But wait, the doctors don't like taking the heat on this and the numbers keep going upwards and onwards. And if the French won't even accept a tiny tax hike on wine to help their own social security system, can you really expect them to give up a holiday for the elderly? And can you guess what horrendous ill the 'France Quality Plan' is meant to remedy? (Not the health system, that's for sure!)

Read about the garbage passing for litterature here. A self-proclaimed fan of America, Bigbiter apparently churned out his 'book' because...

...American television viewers saw "an asceptic, almost clinical" version of events. He said he wanted "to reinject colors, smells, noises, to reintroduce the human dimension that has been carefully removed...

My God! The man is bonkers! How the hell do you 'ascepticize' passenger planes crashing and skyscrapers crumbling on live television?? And how exactly do you inject 'colors, smells' and all that other crap into an image you watch on TV?

From CNN, another Bigbiter quote...

"I think the Americans are nicer inside the country and meaner outside the country..."

What profundity! What illumination! Two words: French weasel. Can someone please get Mr Berger's 'Loving Dictionary of America' on my doorstep for tomorrow morning? Something to clear my palate of the French bad taste in litterature. Yuck.

As for Jim Bittermann (similar to BigBiter, isn't it?), he is perhaps 'Senior Correspondent' at CNN, but what 'genuine and bipartisan outpouring of grief' is he talking about? And he is totally wrong about the French 'passion' for American culture. They hate it! They'll eat at Mickey D's and watch American movies, but they are so enamored of their own culture, to them, American culture is anathema.

On a more positive note, after seeing a comment about his latest book in the threads here, I remembered that I had recently read and appreciated an article of Bernard-Henri Levy's in Time (18-25 Aug 2003), 'A Passage to Europe'. In the article, he lists the failures of modern Europe...jingoism, Le Pen, Haider, Berlusconi, post-fascism, Yugoslavia...and...

Failure: the rise everywhere in Europe, in spite of Europe, of that rabid anti-Americanism that we all know has nothing to do with the real America.

In the article, BHL (a French writer/philosopher) also addresses the 'ghosts' of Europe's past that need to be laid to rest. One of them is...

America, inevitably, the neurotic hatred of which is always a sign in Europe that bad days are coming.

And with that, I send heartwaves to the Land of the Free and the Brave on this second anniversary of 9/11. I'm glad to have found Carine, Dissident Frogman and Damian...proof that Hope lives on both sides of the Atlantic. Now, if I could just find the magic formula to spread that Hope all over the world...

Of course, the French would refuse the formula AND the Hope, claiming them a menace to their oh so sacred culture. They would threaten to veto it or ask to renegotiate their share. They would leave it to die of thirst and bury it in an unmarked grave (which would later be defiled) without ceremony. And then, when held to account, blame everyone but themselves for the death of Hope.

God Bless America.

P.S. If your comments have nothing to do with my post, I will exercise my right to delete them. Got it, trolls?

Thank you for your heartwaves Valerie:^)
I know Carine. Hi Carine(^: and I know The frogman. Btw If you have ever had "Vietnam" smacked over your head in a chatroom,you owe it to yourself to read this article by the DissidentFrogman.

But who is Damian?

The US is still standing, much to the disgust of those who want us gone. Thanks for the support.

I'd like to suggest that we remember ALL the victims of the Islamists world wide on Sept. 11.
Last I counted there were approx. 30 countries where the Islamists were involved in some type of conflict and many of these people are forgotten.

Just one example, Suddan. The Christians and Animists are being tortured, enslaved, and killed by the Islamists. It's been going on for quite some time and the sufferings are enormous.

There is an undeclared and unacknowledged world war going on. Many of the victims, like the Sudanese, are generally forgotten about.

Damian frequently comments here at Pave France. You'll see his name eventually. Just keep checking in.

Thank you for the post and the thoughts, it is good to know that not all Frenchmen agree with the two consecutive editorial cartoons in Le Monde claiming that the US deserved it. I had left the boycott behind, but those two cartoons brought it back. And the french posters here claim that we Americans are being whipped up into a lather by anti-French propaganda...

two consecutive editorial cartoons in Le Monde claiming that the US deserved it.

Which editorial cartoons? Do you have a link?

I have never seen any comments in Le Monde saying that 9/11 was deserved (the editorial the day after was famously "We are all american"). They were against the war in Iraq, what is sensibly different.

Just a comment in memory for who where assasinated 2 years ago for beeing in the whrong place at the wrong moment or in duty trying to save lives.

Papa French, If you want to see the catoons that appear in the French press, "Merde in France" posts them all the time.

http://merdeinfrance.blogspot.com/

And J Mayeau, Damain's site can be found here.

http://www.damianpenny.com/

And some thought there was too much French bashing (racism) here huh?

Well, first, the OMC cartoon is wrong in the sense that it could as much Europe as USA which conduct the car.
And the fact too, that, of course USA didn't deserve the 9/11. In addition, Osama and Co don't hate occidental countries because they feel we empoverish the third world, but more because of the freedom of our women, our culture and our way of living.

Plantu is a very good and famous cartoonist but I don't agree with him on the "9/11 deserved" part. Maybe that's not what he thinks, but IMO, more a reflection on the blindness of our economic action towards the third world.
Poverty is the mother of Crime.

You could have easily clicked on the front page of Le Monde and found today's piece of anti American agitprop. This is far worse than anything that has ever been said in the mainstream US press about the cheese eating surrender monkey nation. Of course you will continue to claim that Americans are angry at France only because George Bush told us to do so.

You guys often claim that sites like this promote hatred of the French, but if it weren't for sites like this, merde and the frogman, it would appear to an American that the entire nation held the point of view of Plantu.

>

Papa FR - realistically, it amounted to little more than cheap sympathy. They were only "all americans" whan they could be victims. They did, however make a huge sacrafice in Afghanistan, sending all of 70 soldiers after hostilities had ended....

I was going to commentabout the way the french pilots returned to base without completing their missions in Afghanistan but I can't find the supporting documents. Ah well I am weary of the search . Thanks a little for your help in Afghanistan. And I'm sure if your economic interests were not so wrapped up with the survival of Saddam you would have given simular help in Iraq. Thanks for profiting on the back of the Gulf war. Thanks for not cheering along with your large Muslim minority when the Towers came down. Indifference is better then straight out glee after all.

The previous comment is not aimed at Valerie or Carine or any of the many Frenchmen that Im sure were appalled on 911. Forgive my attack. My mind is elsewhere.

Oh don't be so hard on our French amigos. I know for a fact that they offered to send a boat to the Indian Gulf to help us out in Afghanistan.

---"According to Foreign Minister Hubert Védrine, only two of France’s most modern ships, the supply tanker Var and the frigate Courbet, have been made available for the war."---

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oct2001/fra-o18.shtml

moptop,

What's your opinion about 9/11 1973?

J.Mayeau,

And I'm sure if your economic interests were not so wrapped up with the survival of Saddam you would have given simular help in Iraq.

Our opinion was against it and we don't get checks in our mailbox every month from TotalElfFina. In fact, it's more oil garbage every day on our beaches we get from them these days.

And I was appalled on 9/11.

Papa French is right on this count...
The people of France don't get large checks in the mail from TotalFinaElf. Those checks only go to politicians.

SuperFrenchPatriotPapaFrog,
When will you get over the cold war? Never mind that Nixon was thrown out of office for being a megalomaniac by 1974. Never mind that at that time, the Soviet Union was attempting to take up where Hitler left off. What percentage of the vote did Allende get to take his country communist? With *36%* of the vote he felt that he had a mandate to bring in foreign troops and create a Stalinist state. This is just a little while before the Soviet Union invaded Afghansistan, just a short time after they rolled their tanks into Prague, as I recall. Of course these are all inconvienient facts that you would just as soon not hear, but they happened.

"The people of France don't get large checks in the mail from TotalFinaElf"

I call bullshit on that statement. Oil revenues from Elf protect the pensions of the French. THe French individuall absolutely stood to profit if Saddam had been kept in power.

Point taken.
I was particularly referring to the large amounts of money TFE has given to various French (and other) politicians. It's at least tens of millions of euros.

Papafrench I take it you saw the moving tribute to 911 that was on the front page of Le Monde today.
How would you feel if the NYTimes had a cartoon linking the French heatwave victims and Vichy French handing over their French Jews to Nazi ovens?

Thats how I feel about your Number one Newspaper linking the WTC to the Allende coup in Chili.

Simple cowardice...

how convenient to 'forget' about the legacy of French imperialism that let to WWI

how convenient to 'forget' about the tyrannical 'peace' of WWI that led to the rise of Hitler and WWII

how convenient to 'forget' about the Vichy French complicity in the holocaust with the Nazi's

how convenient to 'forget' about the post war re-imposition of French exploitive colonialism in Algeria, Vietnam and the other wars of the post-war

how convenient to 'forget' about Suez in '56

how convenient to 'forget' about the Saddamized colonialization of Iraq that perpetuated a fascist regime for French Oil profits.

Pave France? Oh yeah.

Poverty is the mother of Crime.

No Papa French, it's not. Criminality, greed and a lack of honor are the "mother" of crime. Millions of people are poor and impoverished and they don't steal or murder. Growing up we were poor enough and proud enough that my parents would skip meals so we could eat and we never resorted to stealing or killing, the idea never entered our heads. My parents did better than their parents, I am doing better than my parents (though by American standards I'm still working poor) and my children will do even better than that.

Through it all stealing and murder are not options (oh, okay I'll take a pen and a post it pad from work occasionally), and I would be greatly shamed if any of my children, their children or their children's children ever consider stealing and murder to be acceptable just because they're poor.

Kal

I was going to commentabout the way the french pilots returned to base without completing their missions in Afghanistan but I can't find the supporting documents.

I remember that. They were part of the preparatory bombing. Their RTB made the ground action hotter than it had to be, but coalition forces still did well.

BBC reported "The newspaper, Le Monde, quotes unnamed French military officials, as saying that the French and Americans had a difference of opinion over some bombing missions because of the risk to the civilian population."

Though the actual report from Le Monde says " DEPUIS le début de leur intervention, il y a une semaine, aux côtés des Américains, dans la région de Gardez, les avions français n'ont pas accompli toutes les missions qui leur avaient été confiées par le haut-commandement militaire des Etats-Unis. Sans en préciser le nombre, les responsables militaires français conviennent qu'ils ont été amenés à refuser certains des bombardements qu'on leur avait demandé d'exécuter, en raison de divergences d'appréciation avec les Américains sur l'impact potentiel de ces missions."

I'd love a better translation of this than Babelfish gives. Does it actually cite concern for civillian casualties? It would be an odd concern considering where Anaconda occurred. I'm not sure what they mean by a divergence of opinions (appreciations?) about the potential impact of the missions (sorry, I speak American English, Hawaiian and am just beginning classical latin (though I went to Mun Lun for cantonese for a while as a child)).

We also had a problem with French involvement in the Gulf War ('91). According to Norman Schwarzkopf, in his auto-biography, "the French had "conflicting commercial interests. France was a major seller of arms to both Saudi Arabia and Iraq." Their defense minister was a member of the French-Iraqi Friendship Society.
They refused to be put under coalition command and wanted their own autonomous sector to defend. Saudi Arabia rejected that idea and the French agreed to place their forces under Prince Khalid's command. It wasn't until one month before the actual attack that General Maurice Schmitt finally committed France's forces to be in on the offensive. Concerns about the ability of France's light forces to fight Iraqi armor (French concerns not American concerns) prompted General Schmitt to request that they be put in charge of protecting the American's far western flank. This was a valid concern considering that French sent only lightly armored vehicles not suited for fighting Soviet armor. This position would keep the French out of most of the fighting, but would secure the Anglo-American flanks. Schwarzkopf states he was fine with this set-up.

I can't even speculate why France failed or refused to send an adequate force or why General Michel Roquejeoffre got such mixed signals from home that he was unable to commit his forces to action until General Schmitt himself finally committed French forces to the war only a month before the first shot was fired.

I do know that it shows that France was not committed to that "international coalition" until the last minute. I do know that it shows France wasn't a good and reliable ally even then.

But give them this, the French at least had the balls and will to actually fight with and support the coalition inside Iraq itself. None of the Arab coalition members would support the coalition inside Iraq during the war.

One last thing. No one should impune the fighting spirit and ability of the French soldier. From what I've noticed France's greatest military weakness is the country's leadership, not its fighting men and women.

Kal

moptop,

I call bullshit on that statement. Oil revenues from Elf protect the pensions of the French.
It's probably as stupid as if I was saying that your pension is paid by Halliburton.
Pensions are only paid with a part of our salary. I won't argue with you much longer as you seem to invent facts which suits your point of view.

How would you feel if the NYTimes had a cartoon linking the French heatwave victims and Vichy French handing over their French Jews to Nazi ovens?
I don't know, I would not see the point and I'd forget it 5 minutes later.

Thats how I feel about your Number one Newspaper linking the WTC to the Allende coup in Chili.
I find it very offensive and not very diplomatic in a period where american are still hurt and sensitive to the subject.
Otherwise:
- 11/9 1973 was the day of a coup d'état which made around 2200 dead and which turn chili in a dictatorship for a bit less than 20 years.
- The leader was marxist but democratically elected.
- with the help of CIA

So 9/11 is the now the modern symbol of attack against democracy.

So, TotalFinaElf is a tax free company? I am just curious. If, as he tried so valiantly to do, Villepin had succeeded in keeping Saddam in power and protecting the contracts that Elf had signed, TFE would have paid no taxes to the govt? Is that what I hear you say? Or is it that there is no state support in your pension funds? That your health care is not paid for by taxes on Elf of any kind? That the taxes collected by France on those contracts, and by the multiplier effect of those billions of Euros in the French economy, none of that would have benifited French citizens? If that is what you are saying, say it and I will accept it.

And BTW, there is democracy now in Chile, there is no democracy in Cuba. Cubans leave that country all the time on leaky rafts, makeshift boats, whatever will float to escape that God forsaken little island that you French seem to think is some kind of paradise.

All this talk of Chile, what did France do in the cold war besides betray information to the Soviets to the point where the French still are not trusted by the US security agencies. The French did nothing but try to help the Soviets win the Cold War, to salve their wounded pride.

"I hear people talking about France having ulterior motives to get oil contracts in Iraq," he said. "It is absurd." --Villepin yesterday.

Yeah its absurd, France already had the huge oil contracts signed. TotalFinaElf had development rights to roughly 25% of total Iraqi reserves under Saddam. Google it yourself if you do not believe me. All they had to do was fight for Saddam at the UN and look the other way as to how Saddam ruled Iraq, which they did. These are facts that will not change, no matter how much you argue them.

They will not even change if you bring up the 30 year old acts of a president, Nixon, who was afterwards driven from office in disgrace, replaced by the American people with a left of center peacenik, Jimmy Carter, who lost both Iran and Afghanistan. We are talking about current leaders now. You cannot change France's past, but you can stop being a slave to it.

papafrench
you say I find it very offensive and not very diplomatic in a period where american are still hurt and sensitive to the subject.

all that comes after makes you a prick. And a liar.

As though Chile wasn't going to be a dictatorship under the Marxist Allende. sheesh.

As though Chile wasn't going to be a dictatorship under the Marxist Allende. sheesh.

I'd like to put you in front of a victim of the Pinochet dictatorship. Just to see if you manage to repeat that.

all that comes after makes you a prick. And a liar.

Same for you, could you elaborate a little bit?

Valerie,

Thank you for the kind mention and warm sentiments.

M. Mayeau,

I'm just a guy with a handful of links whose interests in France a little more than a year ago did not extend beyond a few French artists and writers, flake pastries and excellent champagnes, such as the Henriot Cuvée Des Enchanteleurs and Millésimé – when they could be had.

The link provided by Charles is not my site. I only maintain a modest business site, which, if you are curious, can be found here.

If you are new to Pave you might be wondering: Who is Papafrench? Who is Marc Levis?

They are trolls, meaning they are not here for honest debate but to inflame and distract the Pave community.

Weak thinkers, incapable logicians, lazy researchers – these shameless apologists for all things French offer themselves, like Marshall Pétain, as France’s shield. Their English is fractured, their orthography defective. This more often than not unintentionally renders their posts both puzzling and hilarious.

They are very tetchy about any criticism of France to which they are not predisposed. Limited debaters, their preferred methods are the off-topic tu quoque and boundless sanctimony.

They are not easy to tell them apart, but Papafrench is something like Marc Levis with a hauteur beep-up.

Should you want to e-mail Papafrench, whose real name is Patrice Klajman, don't bother. The address he lists is as phony as his patronizing pseudonym:

This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: papa@hotmail.com

Welcome to Pave, M. Mayeau, but don’t waste too much time sweating responses to the trolls.

Regards,
DGB

Valerie,

Ah that Damian! Such embarassment. If you would have said DGB I would have know him without the 3 day lag. But I should have known anyways. I beg your pardon M.Bennett.

Patrice Klajman apparently you are an unconscious, masochistic prick. But since you asked I will elaborate.
Your the kind of prick that when called upon to give the toast at your younger brother's wedding takes the opportunity to expound on the mans sexual exploits from his college days (the details of which you were told in confidence). The drunken soliloquy being puntuated by the mother of the bride leaving the hall in tears.
You excuse her lack of ettiquet by belching out "Must have been the drink".
Then you continue by describing in the kind of detail only attributable to first hand knowlege the natural endowments of the bride. Culminated in an invitation to the party for a viewing of her on your personal website ( where you have the video you took of the couple through your secret camera, from their visit to your home the previous summer).
Your speech then disintigrates into a drunken accusation of your Father. How he showered favor on your sibling, and how the wreckage of your life would have been so different if he would have given you the attention and love that was your due.
Just before passing out you manage to vomit on the Maid of Honor while the bridesmaids and ushers wrestle you away from the microphone.
After you come to, you make a pass at the brides little sister.
Thats the kind of prick you are M. Klajman.

P.S. Your a piss poor liar as well.

Dear J Mayeau,

The image of "Big Brother's Wedding Toast" will stay with me forever. Thank you for very apt and hilarious description. :-)

PS Must visit Pave France more often.

I might have over stretched the truth in the case of Papafrench . He is an adequate liar.
The rest you can watch on film "The Wedding Singer".

J.Mayeau,

Nice story. Is that the one your mother told you last night before putting you to bed?

damian,

thx for the 100 lines of insults. Pedantic as usual, but still useful for those who need some help in their daily crosswords.

papacheese eater

Real people don't hide their address. In fact giving a false address makes you a liar before you ever type a word. Your posts merely confirm.

But Im glad you had a chance to read what I really think of you.

P.S. Any simularity between my description of M.Klajman and a real person was unintentional (I was aiming for the troll)

papacheese eater
J.Mayeau is so sarcastic.

Real people don't hide their address.
First, I will make you a confidence, I'm real. But let's keep it between you and me. Second confidence : French citizen who want to keep their mail safe of spam don't put their e-mail on a French-bashing site.

But Im glad you had a chance to read what I really think of you.
I must admit it chilled me out a bit to learn that a mythomaniac was inventing stories about me. I would not like to meet you by chance in a desert street at night, brrrrrr....

PF, AKA PK,

The beg-off on your phony e-mail address is both lame and disingenuous. A valid e-mail address is blog etiquette. It is considered a pledge that a real person stands behind the opinions posted.

Awhile back you posted you were going to open a Hotmail account specifically for Pave correspondents. Hotmail accounts are free for the asking.

My guess is that no one will write much less take the time to spam you.

As for a "100 lines of insults", tsk, tsk, your numeracy is as defective and overblown as your high opinions. Counting the salutations and complimentary closing, my whole post does not exceed 32 lines. But of course you didn't bother counting.

If in calling my posts "pedantic", you mean I lack your common touch, ah, c'est vrai.

"The level of cocktail chatter is good enough for me, there are still some people on this blog who have yet to reach it."
Posted by: papa french on April 9, 2003 07:37 PM

"You [DGB] are a [sic] arrogant prick"
Posted by papa french at April 10, 2003 12:51 PM

"I am sad for you, I pity the poor mind. I call you prick, because you showed too quickly evidence of this (with pride in addition). Is this arrogant, probably, but arrogance is a natural feeling in front of the stupidity. At your contact, I'm the king of the world." [Emphasis added.]
Posted by papa french at April 10, 2003 03:11 PM

"Your [DGB] problem is that you are neither subtle, or moderate, so you'll never convince anybody not agreeing with you."
Posted by papa french at April 10, 2003 12:51 PM

"You have to control a country where people are currently looting hospitals. :) [sic, PF later informed Pave the smiley was "ironic"] ... Of course you sh****ed [sic, an undiscoverable expletive] on UN and continue so you'll have to do all by yourself. The gorilla, 2 feet in a quagmire?"
Posted by papa french at April 11, 2003 02:14 PM

And on and on and on it goes. No fear of you ever being mistaken for a pedant. Nor informed. Nor a wit. Nor of interest.

Since you are looking for help with the crosswords, should you have a clue such as "1A. French glory" or "15D. French trust" or "23A. French friendship" or "35D. French world standing" that requires a long word, here's one for you:

floccinaucinihilpilification

It means "to make nothing of"

Regards,
DGB

papasmurf

Apology accepted

M.Bennett

On reflection I realize you were attempting to save Papa from what M.Katherine called a very apt and hilarious description. You were being nice to the troll and he took it as being an insult. I applaud your tact.
Sorry that I didn't act on your subtle advisory. It's not every day that I insult a person who then requests me to elaborate. I found it too much to pass up. It would be like leaving folding money discarded on the sidewalk.