So it's hardly a new thing that France has tried to rule the European Union. Holding membership for emerging countries hostage until France gets what she wants, trying to unify Europe to oppose the United States, blah, blah, blah.

But now, in an extraordinary display of chutzpah (well, it would be chutzpah if they weren't a bunch of anti-semites), France (along with Germany) has decided to suspend any penalties for violations of EU economic lines.

Why?

Because France has been breaking them for years.

"if they weren't a bunch of anti-semites"

Krempasky, you're a loser.

Gee...guess you've not noticed the rampant anti-Jewish violence and hate in France these recent years.

"Europe to oppose the United States..." (hahaha)

In fact Max is right, you are a looser to talk about things you don't know anything about and you're stupid to think that France is trying to create a competition against the US, people have things more important to do, don't be stupid !!

"Because France has been breaking them for years."

No, just since april 2002 : a DUMB CONSERVATIVE GOVERNEMENT HAS BEEN ELECTED in france (I agree it would have been worse with the FN). That's why we have so much problem today !

Last question : Are you going to set a list of all the things France did wrong ?
If it's "yes", indeed you are a looser.

I don't like the way you have to generalize some anti-semites acts to all the population.
And here the racism is more anti arab people than anti jews. It's not better...

I'm sorry for loser remark but it was not very chic to say that we're just a bunch of anti-semites.

I just read on Dissident Frogman about a concert (for a charity of all things) where a group of 30 muslims screamed "we're going to kill you Jew" at a singer who was performing. The French First lady was standing next to her during this!!!
Five thousand supposedly freedom loving French citizens were in attendance, and yet not one person rose to challenge this rabble.
If it looks like anti-semitism and acts like anti- semitism chances are thats what it is.

For fucks sake, a girl, on stage entertaining your folks, and not one of you steps up even to say "be quiet"!

I piss on all of you.

Interresting. Never heard about that, it's strange because media are fond of those kind of problems.

Is your source really sure ?

to stephanie and other french minds- What's the matter with you damn french fools?
Your defense minister thinks "relations with the US have thawed"? The WIFE of your president stands by while african freaks shout death insults to a woman singer??! You people are so disillusioned it defies modern logic. The US Govt And the US citizens simply HATE you french fools and everything you attempt to stand for. We laugh at you in such a constant way. Your defensless minister also statedthat the french have a better "understanding" of the arab issue. really? again you flatter only yourselves! If you have a better "vision", it is certain that is because EACH of your cities is surrounded by a jihad hi-rise filled ghetto that you built on your own.
Why do you damn freaks spend soooo much time looking outside your sterile little world analyzing and tossing critcisms to the US as your own country falls pitifully apart and the problems you accuse others of all sit right in your own backyeard within your own country. please don't tell me all you welfare fools are blind too?
You french have such a marvelous way of flattering your own selves and pumping up your own self-worth that you are truly a laughable disgrace in world politics. Your desperation is so evident with every step you take, that it makes for a worthwhile comedy of sorts.
Your pitiful little welfare whore country is a modern disgrace. You have one aircraft carrier that can't even take a sunday drive out to sea without a problem forcing it home.
You damn french freaks need to know this- YOU ARE HATED here in the US by a huge majority of the population. We do not have the time or the desire to obsess over you french fools as you do with the US as you ride it's coat tails and milk it's teats. We simply stand back and laugh at your desperate worthlessness.
You have a magazine in france that had a cover for the New Year that read "The man who ruined our year- Bush"
What REALLY is the matter with you imbeciles?
Bush(!) has caused your nation such disgrace and decay on his own???
Would an elderly french citizen who cooked to death when the weather got warm last year in your country feel the same way as your general public does about who is to blame for you joke of a nation?
Look inwards at yourselves first, or continue to make a mockery of your own culture and politics.

Stephane,

you can check yourself--> click dissident frogman
from the links section.

You must understand that the media edits their news to fit the governments agenda. You caught that right? If you didn't, and you believe from the reports that there is no problem between Franch Muslims and anybody who isn't part of the Umamm. If you have been trusting all that they feed you, then you are naive. But naivety is a condition cured by experience and I have a hope for you.

Great Pato! Great! It was so impressive ! Take this banana, it's for you Pato! Nice Pato! Nice!

Since this thread was about the “pact”, let’s talk some economics!!!

Well, five years after the intro of the Euro, its rise (and the dollars fall), as well as the Stability and Growth Pact is testing the confines of cooperation of the countries that use it. Just wait until May, when 10 more come on board.

Germany is trying tax cuts in an attempt to get their deficit to about 4% this year, but, the European Commission says France risks breaking the budget deficit limit (3%) every year until at least 2007. The US deficit is running at about 5% of GDP.

So, what does this mean? With the US economy growing and productivity rising (fast), foreign investors continue buying US assets keeping the dollar strong. But, with our deficit running 5%, foreigners may not be willing to lend the US all of the cash, and the dollar will head down.

This is where it gets down, once again, to the US-France policies. (Don’t you just love this stuff?). One the Frog side, you have Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, who is blaming the unfavorable (from their side) exchange rate (euro/USD) as a “deliberate attempt by President Bush to maintain a weak dollar to boost exports.” The higher the euro, the lower the dollar, the more expensive Frog products are in the US.

On the US side, well, Frog Raffarin may be correct. In an election year (2004) there is not much chance of Bush pursuing a “stronger” dollar strategy. We do need those exports to help keep the economy strong.

It is interesting to note that French exports to the US fell by more than 17% in the first 11 months of 2003. That is a HUGH drop, and, I am sorry to say, was not due to folks like me no longer purchasing Frog products (damn, I miss that wine….). Big drop in aircraft parts (which account for about 25% of Frog to US exports) because of airline crisis was also a major factor.

Also, because, again of many items (boycott, high euro, terrorism fears) tourism to France from the US declined 12%. I think I read that TOTAL tourism to France was not down that much, because tourists are coming from within Europe, but that total revenue was way down. The Americans that are visiting, because of the high Euro, are not spending, and tourists from the European countries do not spend as much. High end hotels have revenue figures that are almost 50% lower. That’s a big drop.

The G-7 met in US (Boca Raton, FL) this weekend. I did not get a chance to read the details, but I do not think that the statements they released will do much to bring the euro down and dollar up.

My opinion? For years Europeans have depended on the US economy (strong) to purchase more of their exports, and this demand from US has “sheltered” Europeans from their bad economic policies. They need to start cutting entitlements and deregulating labor markets, for starters.
The US needs to do its part by cutting the HUGH federal budget deficit getting rid of the dependency on foreign capital. Sound easy, RIGHT?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-2-2004_pg3_3 has more reasons why france should be destroyed - from Camel Prophet on LGF.

here is a joke for you

Theres a small charter plane with three passengers and one pilot. The three passengers are a priest, a boyscout, and the smartest living Frenchman. Suddenly the engine quits and the pilot announces it can't be restarted. He turns around and says "there are only three parachutes, and I'm taking one" after which he jumps from the plane. Next, the smartest living Frenchman says "Well I'm the smartest mind France has! I cannot die to save two Americans!" after which he dives from the plane. The priest then tells the boyscout "Well son, I think this is the lord calling me home... you take the last parachute." The boyscout replies "Oh dont worry father, the worlds smartest Frenchman just jumped out of the plane strapped to my back pack"

From Right thinking from the left coast contributed by Ryley Hayes

mmmm......jokes about planes.......

This is the way France respect European Union Rules.
If they are good for them, they accept them.
If they are not, fuck them up.
the two countries that call themselves "the european power", Germany is a potence by it self France is not, put some economic rules to other countries and when they cannot afford those messures, they just break them.
France is a rich country, but indeed cannot afford anymore such a crazy welthfare state.
Sometimes you must be impopular to govern a country, trade unions and goverment populism make impossible to take those decissions.
Always demonstrations, always 35 work laws, France must understand that the country has changed and they must quit of many of their privilleges and accept some new obligations.

Interresting. Never heard about that, it's strange because media are fond of those kind of problems.
Is your source really sure ?

Stéphane,

Below is an article published in Le Monde. Is Le Monde "sure" enough for you, Stéphane?

It's easy to say you're "against" anti-Semitism and that you "support" Shirel once everything is over. But Bernadette Chirac and the policemen that were there did nothing THEN. That's not the first time such anti-Semitic acts happen. I thought the French "Republic could not tolerate any anti-Semitic act" (emphasis is mine).
Someone like Mrs Chirac is surrounded with special security forces in addition to the police that must have been there to monitor the concert. But Bernadette Chirac did NOTHING. Didn't she just tolerate anti-Semitic insults? And what about the thousands of people who attended the concert? What did they do? Nothing.

Antisémitisme : des ministres soutiennent la chanteuse Shirel
LE MONDE | 03.02.04
Le ministre de la justice, Dominique Perben, a reçu, lundi 2 février, la chanteuse Shirel afin de lui dire qu'il ne tolérerait plus aucun "dérapage" antisémite. Le même jour, Jean-Pierre Raffarin a téléphoné à la jeune chanteuse pour "l'assurer de son soutien et confirmer son engagement contre l'antisémitisme".

Le premier ministre l'a félicitée "pour son courage d'être restée sur la scène face aux insultes", a indiqué Matignon. La chanteuse, qui possède les nationalités française, américaine et israélienne, avait été la cible d'insultes antisémites ("sale juive, mort aux juifs, on vous tuera") alors qu'elle donnait un concert, samedi 31 janvier, à Mâcon (Saône-et-Loire), dans le cadre de l'opération "Pièces jaunes", en présence de Bernadette Chirac et de David Douillet.

Jean-Jacques Aillagon a également tenu à lui faire part de son "indignation". Lundi, le ministre de la culture et de la communication lui a téléphoné pour l'assurer de son "entier soutien", a annoncé un porte-parole du ministère.

Quant à Nicolas Sarkozy, qui participait lundi soir au dîner annuel du comité local du Conseil représentatif des institutions juives de France (CRIF) à Toulouse, il a estimé que "les imbéciles qui ont prononcé ces injures font honte à tous ceux qui réfléchissent et qui connaissent l'histoire". Le ministre de l'intérieur a assuré, à cette occasion, que "plus aucun acte d'antisémitisme ne serait toléré" en France.

Le ministère de la justice a demandé au parquet de Mâcon d'ouvrir une enquête afin de déterminer l'identité des délinquants. Mardi matin, aucune interpellation n'avait été effectuée.

Nothing but empty words.

Go read DF's post if you haven't done so already. He was more eloquent than I am.

To every-body :

Do you think I'll be ashamed that you call me "Stéphanie" ? actually not at all ;-)

Pato :

Great ! In fact we don't care that you hate us because, (don't trust me if you want) we love you ! I send you a nice kiss on the cheek pato !

__________________________________________________

You found your black sheep, first it was USSR now it's France. But you should understand that hate and cristicism don't help anything at all.
I think the best thing to do is come to our country and visit some people, talk with them, make friends (IF IT DOES NOT HURT YOU)...

All those stupid problems about Irak made you forget what is really important in life...

So sad...

stephane, i'm not sure this band of geeks are really representative of the USA...

we cannot generalize as they usually do.

Dare I say that stephanie is being typically French in her last comment?

Making friends, getting to know different kinds of people is clearly more important than "all those stupid problems in" Iraq.

Yeah, stupid problems like the deaths of tens of thousands of people at the hands of a madman. Then again, i suppose they're only stupid if your country is making gazillions buying oil and selling weapons because of them.

I've decided to suspend any penalties for failing to pay my taxes.

No, just since april 2002 : a DUMB CONSERVATIVE GOVERNEMENT HAS BEEN ELECTED in france (I agree it would have been worse with the FN). That's why we have so much problem today!

So a French majority chose to vote for dumb people? And as a result, these problems popped up in a single year? Why does that sound unlikely?

Pato:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=class

Stephane:
Why do we have to come to France? Why can't the French come here? Surely the French government is in a better position to sponsor all those vacations than the American citizens? It could probably even be justified as a "diplomatic outreach mission" or something. Whatever will make it sound all fuzzy and fraternally-minded.

You flatter France if you think it is the United States' new "black sheep", taking the USSR's place. There are a few more Americans casting an adversarial eye at France than there used to be, but even still we collectively only think of France for an average of 17 seconds per month; the USSR was an obsession that overshadowed everything. When the USSR collapsed, we did start to "shop" for a new enemy - we were so used to having one, that not having one was alien. We looked to China - China's big, and a little belligerant, but it just was no USSR. We looked back at Russia - but Russia was a shell of its former self, it could not step up to its old role again. We even looked briefly at the smattering of failed communist regimes around the world - beh, they just weren't the Soviets. Our enemy was gone, and we just had to get used to it.

On the other hand, some parts of Europe had no such problems, did they? France found its new evil in an instant; the dust hadn't settled before the French were getting misty-eyed over the demise of the Soviet Union, and casting angsty, accusing looks across the Atlantic. Oh, those nasty Murkins! Something must be done about them!

We spent roughly 15 years getting comfortable with the idea of having just rivals, no more enemies. It was nice - I've never once in the last 15 years been concerned that the day's headlines might start us running down a path to nuclear winter. In France though, every evil in the world now has a source, doesn't it? Your 'black sheep', America. Present-day France could have been fashioned by McCarthyites and Soviet Pravda.

I think it's very funny the way you hate each other.
Sometimes in this site there are frogs who wanna look cool and say they don't hate anyone, and there are also good frogs that hate the France that has build up in the last decades.
It's their beatifull country, but theit critic spirit aim them to complain, i like those frogs, they are nice.
I can't understand why France hate USA so much, but i can understand the angerness of USA people against France in their recent actions.
Anyway i agree with Mike Krempasky when she says that Stephanie was typically french, her words stink to kinda hipocresy, the words, not you steph, even they could be aromized with a little bit of Channel 5.

"You found your black sheep, first it was USSR now it's France."

No, I think that France has tried to step into the vacuum left by Reagan's defeat of the USSR. For that, France can expect to be criticized. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." -- Harry Truman.

"you should understand that hate and cristicism don't help anything at all."

Really? I agree with you on the 'hate' part. If I hated France, I would not waste my time here. But criticism helps a lot of things. It helped to turn the tide on American racism for one thing. It helped to bring down the USSR. It helped to end Slavery in the US and force America to live up to the ideals set out in her founding documents. Criticism is the essence of democracy. Criticism ended Apartheid. This is why I have never suggested that Michael Moore's books be suppressed in any way, even though I really think that a month at a facility under the care of caring professionals and a regimin of anti-psycotic drugs might change his mind on a few things.

And you might try coming here. I have been to France and I loved it. You might find out that Americans do not have two heads, and we don't spend our days drooling, doing Nazi salutes, and lynching blacks, or even shooting people. Just as I found out that stories of Parisian rudeness were way overblown.

I am 46 years old and have never heard a gunshot that was not connected with target practice or hunting. Nor do I know anyone who has been murdered, even though I know our murder rate is too high. Does that surprise you? If it does, you are ignorant of our country.

I think the best thing to do is come to our country and visit some people, talk with them, make friends (IF IT DOES NOT HURT YOU)...

I have been to France on at least a dozen or more occasions both for work and pleasure. There are many things I like about France, and I made several good friends there who are still quite dear to me. However, to be completely honest, I also found France to be the most irritating country I've ever visited (I remember thinking after France won the World Cup in '98 that it was a travesty because the French would be even more pompous than they already were). Now please keep in mind that the majority of my visits took place during the Clinton administration (prior to Kosovo, 9/11, Iraq War II). Back then I found that anti-americanism was quite prevelant(and not only in France, but amongst most Europeans I met). It never ceased to amaze me how much people there obsessed about America. Most were quite happy to criticize anything and everything American, but as soon as I would return any criticism, they became very defensive and acted as though their feelings had been hurt. I finally concluded (rightly or wrongly) that it all amounted to nothing more than a form of "penis envy". Europeans in general just couldn't come to terms with the fact that a country and people that they felt to be inferior and backwards in so many ways compared to themselves, was completely and absolutely dominate politically, economically, and militarily.

So anyway, I'm not personally inclined, nor do I find it particularly desirable given the current circumstances, to try and reconcile French-American relations. Until such time that doing so would be mutually beneficial and equitable in my judgment, it would be better just to continue the current semi-adversarial relationship. Eventually we'll be able to see clearly just which country needs the other more.

Victor,
I do not hate France. I pity her. And I mourn for the country that she once was. Seeing France slide into the state she now finds herself--unable to stop thousands from dying in a heat wave, allowing anti-Semitism to go unchallenged.--is like watching a friend drink herself to death. No, never hate.

All your post cheer me up.

Krempasky :
I was talking about problems dealing with "was war a good things, etc..." !

Doug :
notice that I went to US a few time (I'm only 18) and I have friends too in the US. One told me : "I should show you to my H-S friends to show them that french can be really nice and friendly."
I was so pleased that I promised myself to try to show it myself (even if I sometimes get out of my nerves, sorry about that...)

Brb :
I believe you and was pleased to read what you wrote. Maybe one day I should take time to explain all of you some things about how does the french see america today (trust me, it's a very friendly vision).
Pleased to see that you see the same as I saw (about murders).

Victor :
"I can't understand why France hate USA"

WHAT ??? Do you really know what are you talking about ?? Most people are dreaming to go there for holidays, a lot want to live there, etc...
Don't say such things !

Stéphane:

I wish that French people would come visit America as much as Americans have come to visit France. And don't just go to New York or Los Angeles - go see the rest of the country. Go to Colorado and Texas and Oklahoma; go to Tennessee and Kentucky; go to Oregon and Washington state; go to Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine; go to Florida, go to New Mexico and Arizona. (Of course I realize that this will take a lot of time and/or different trips.)

Meet some real Americans. See how Americans really live. So many people in this world never have the opportunity to travel and see how people in other places live. They only impression they get is what their local news sources filter down to them. Come see the real America, and not the one that le Monde shows you. We'd love to have you come visit.

See Americans have a bit more motivation to visit Europe than Europeans have to visit America. America's history and ancestry began in Europe, so like it or not, we have a cultural link to Europe. Most Europeans have no such link to America, and therefore feel justified to blow America off or feel ignorantly superior (note I said "most.")

I would like to encourage you all to see America and learn about our culture and learn about our history besides June 1944. Please don't watch an episode of "Friends" and then think you know what Americans are all about. About ninety percent of Americans are nothing at all like what you see depicted on TV. (Irrelevant side note: the last time I was in France, I noticed that "Stargate: SG-1" was on TV just about everytime I turned it on. Glad to see you guys appreciate such a good show!)

So to summarize -
Europeans: come to America on holiday! Come to the REAL America (i.e. get out of New York.) See things from our perspective if you can.

Americans: go to Europe on vacation. See how they really live. See things from their perspective if you can.

I have found in my travels that those who claim to be the most urbane and sophisticated (i.e. the ones who feel "culturally superior") are in fact the ones who never leave their own way of life. Many Parisians are that way. Many New Yorkers are that way. The list goes on. Don't be that way!

I've stayed in Montreal - they think they're French, does that count? ;)

thanks Beo ;)

Want to travel???

You may get a “cut rate” on a rail ticket. British-French tunnel operator Eurotunnel reported a loss of $2.405 BILLION (1.889 Euros) for 2003 and said it will be refinancing some debt. It is also appealing to France/Brits governments to help boost traffic with a rate cut for rail customers. I read somewhere else, but can’t seem to find the article, that 90% of the French stay in France on their holidays.

Article is here: http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/040209092024.5ms7vytu

(Could someone please tell me what html tags to use to make the nifty little links you all use, so I don’t have to look like a “dumb American” and paste the darn thing like above?
I can do bold and italics, see?)

any Frenchman who want to come to America, mind your manners on the plane. Once you get here and are well away from the airport, you can say what ever you like and people might even laugh with you about your "bomb" jokes.
I am sure you will be suprised how little we worry about crap like that away from airports.

With the strong Euro your liable to haul a whole sack full of trinkets back for the folks at home on the cheap.

Your Welcome to come. And don't worry about telling people where your from either. We are much more reserved with our criticism, when we are face to face. Besides that, it really is a fact that Americans don't think about the French Government all that much.

We won't hold it against you personally , is what I'm trying to get at.

I wish that French people would come visit America as much as Americans have come to visit France.

Nice to read posts like this, thanks

So Americans see New Yorkers like French see Parisians. I heared the same things in the "far east" Netherlands (Enschede) about Amsterdamer.

In general way, 90% of people think that 90% of people is made of dark desesperate dumbs ;D

I fully agree with your call to travel, make friends around the world. When you know people, it is less easy to fool you about them with propagande.

I know nothing about USA except what I could see of New York in a bit less than one Week. It was just after two weeks in Montréal. The contrast was incredible. I was a bit like someone living in Auvergne visiting Paris "So Nice, so great, impressive but... I would never be able to live there...". No problem about the people who where very friendly with us. It was rather the feeling of round the clock permanent pressure of this mega mega mega town exagerated by this wet heat usual in July.

(Could someone please tell me what html tags to use to make the nifty little links you all use, so I don’t have to look like a “dumb American” and paste the darn thing like above?
I can do bold and italics, see?)

So, tags for hyperlink can be done that way

<a href="http://www.pavefrance.com/blog/">Don't go there!!! </a>

which gives
Don't go there!!!

between the double quotes after href, you past the url of your document you just copy from your address bar.
the Don't go there !!! will be the visible text on which the visitor click to go at the url between double quotes.

When doing this, don't forget to use the preview. Check then when you place your mouse cursor on the link if the correct url is displayd in the bottom ststus bar.

Sometimes, especially with long url, the preformatting may mess up the tag.

Beo :
You're right, I wish I could do that one day. But actually, I would be interrested to talk with american who have bad feeelings about french, even anywhere. Of course, those I can meet in France are often really different.
This morning I talked with a nice English woman in the bus, but only a few minutes... too bad

Pierre:
Thanks much for the instructions!