Well, Francois finally got around to expelling a girl for wearing a head scarf.

Never let it be said that the French can't stand up to a little girl.

Although it's good that she was only armed with a scarf. If it had been a sharp stick they would have petitioned the U.N. to outlaw all sticks and sharpening instruments and asked the U.S. to provide troops to disarm the girl.

Then they would have protested that we used too much violence when we snatched the stick away.

What would the head frogs do if Shiks and Muslims stopped going to public schools in large numbers? Can't those communities stand up to the frog leaders by starting to home school? Do they have home schooling in the swamps of Frogland?

What's next on the list? Banning the waving of non-french flags? Banning tadpoles who are not arrogant enough for the french culture?

Way to legislatively divorce children from their cultures. Go France.

Doug, Dwayne

Do you know that Tunisia banned the headscarf in its schools and administrations in 1956 ?
Turkey did the same in 1925.

The headscarf ISN'T an obligation for muslims.
But it's a way to ISOLATE women and to INFEODATE them to their fathers&brothers/husbands (chronological order, no period between the switching).

Would you legitimate a "tradition" whose aim is to deprive women from their right to enjoy social autonomy (ie to meet whoever they want) ?
Of course, we can't ban it for adult women. But we don't have to let their kids to be conditioned in the very place where they are teached to be adults (the ban only applies to schools).

Try to imagine what your life would be under the obligations of the hijab/tchador/burqa). I mean, try it sincerely.
You don't have the right to speak with a man for more than 5 minutes.
You don't have the right to show your face out of your home. Can you imagine what kind of social life you would have ?

Dulong,

The drift of your post -- women should not be denied equal freedoms -- is not being contested here. Pave does not support dysfunctional Muslim family arrangements. But you've brought the wrong argument to the party.

First, France, prior to her ginned-up hijab ban, was happy enough with school kids outfitted as their parents saw fit. The sacred French "secular" tradition came out of nowhere. A "secular" tradition where 6 of 12 public holidays are a religious feasts is so much horse hockey. (The religious public holidays are: Pâques, Lundi de Pâques, Ascension, Pentecôte, Assomption, Toussaint, and Noël. Also Fête des Rois, La Chandeleur, and Good Friday are all widely observed. And metal workers have the holiday of St. Eloi off. )

Second, the unofficial but openly admitted purpose of the legislation was not to free little Fatima from a life of incest, abuse, and restricted liberties, but to discourage her big brother Mohammed from beating Jews, desecrating cemetries, and torching synagogues. Denying little Fatima her hijab does nothing to alter her cultural situation, makes her dysfunctional home life more miserable still, and incites Mohammed to more of the same.

Third, if you are arguing the hijab is wrong on principle then why does that same principle not obtain for little Fatima's Mom?

Fourth, to have her hijab ban, France -- in a rare display of fair play -- curtailed everybody's religious freedoms.

Lastly, I am curious about your use of the term "infeodate". I can't find a single reference work that carries it. There is infeodation but I hardly see how that hangs with your argument.

DGB

France's "secular tradition" is part of our culture. The State and the Religion were separated in 1905 and it didn't come "from nowhere". The French revolution instituted laicity more than 200 years ago, and was inspired by Voltaire, Diderot, Rousseau (...). Its aim was to limit the dogmatic power of the Church.

1/ Many of our holidays were created long ago, for the commodity of people who were mostly catholic. I don't see your point. But your transcription of Wikipedia information is highly indigent. Fete des rois and chandeleur ARE NOT public holidays (obviously you don't know how they are celebrated). "Lundi de Paques" is part of Paques holiday, that it ends. Pentecote was suppressed last year.

2/ Never heard of your openly admitted purpose. And it doesn't fit with your other points. In fact, this is a typical interpretation made by people who dramatize the anti-judaic acts in France, but in any case the purpose of this law. How can you write such nonsense as the end of your paragraph ??! Hope you were kidding.

3/ Once an adult, your FATIMA has been conditionned by the headscarf principle. To ban it for her will do much more harm than good to her.

4/ What's your point there ?

5/ That's a word I chosed to used. You shouldn't google it. I meant "totally obedient to" , but it's even more than being "obedient".

Dulong,

I see you are another product of French public schooling, big on swanking and clueless as to how to conduct an argument.

First, you are a careless reader.

I gave the 6 religious of the 12 French public holidays as: Pâques, Lundi de Pâques, Ascension, Pentecôte, Assomption, Toussaint, and Noël. As for Fête des Rois, La Chandeleur, and Good Friday I said they "are all widely observed", which they are without benefit of state sanction. Obviously your grasp of English is indigent. And excuse us if we don't think much of the primacy of a "secularist" tradition with a calendar chock-a-block with religious public holidays "for the commodity of people who were mostly catholic".

Second, you conveniently overlook my first point: France's great "secularist" tradition had no problem with religious wear in her schools before this dim misconceived bill. The hijab, dastar, kara, crucifix, rosary, zucchetto, kippot, and tzitzit had never been construed as an offense to the state. Just where was all that French hand-wringing for little Fatima before? Read this carefully and you'll find an answer to your No.4 query.

Let me remedy your indigent knowledge of French hijab politics:

UMP deputy Jerome Riviere says France's secular nature was being challenged by a small minority of hardline Islamists, and he insists the law is not about suppressing religious freedom. ... "We don't have a problem with religion in France. We have a problem with the political use by a minority of religion."

Now, let's see, France claims 1,500 some odd years of history but according to you her traditions reside only in her last 200 years, except for religious public holidays. Seems to me out of your 15-odd constitutions and 5 Republics and Vichy state, French "secularism" is more a fashion than a tradition.

Your No. 3 is not an answer, it is merely the pleasure you take in your own echo. If the French constitutional principle of laïcité is uncompromising why is this ban limited to the schoolyard? If "Secularism is not negotiable," as Jack said, why doesn't this shabby law extend to municipal workers? And why did the Stasi report -- while huffing and puffing about the threat of young Muslim girls to French "secularism" -- recommend that Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, and the Muslim Eid al-Kabir festival be celebrated in state schools?

France has passed a junk law that is conceptually conflicted but is easier than reading the riot act to little Fatima's anti-Semitic brother and father..

A word of advice, if you mean "totally obedient to" then we suggest you say it plainly. Imposing your personal meanings on a lexical curiosity [and, oh, ALL CAPS!] of indeterminate meaning, well, you look like you're trying too hard.

Regards,
DGB