At a recent forum of the Association of Opinion Page Editors, this telling throwaway comment from Chris Hedges of the New York Times:

"There was absolutely no interest in my newspaper in presenting the views of the French" as the U.S. moved toward war in Iraq, Hedges said. Instead, there was lots of guffawing over anti-French jokes, which he termed "racist."

Who knew? The New York Times' newsroom is a place where mockery of France is so severe that a heroic, hardy, death-defying war correspondent would consider it tantamount to workplace harassment.

[All emphases added.]

Indeed, who knew that France didn't rate at Le Monde-at-Times-Square? But then there is Pave.

Our French correspondents swan into the Pave threads where they freely go about their business. They complain. They insist that criticism or ridicule of France is prima facie hate-speech and racism in one breath, and in the very next breath they casually and openly calumniate America. Then before leaving some will fire back this Parthian marshmallow: America is hated.

But what they won't say is, Thank you.

No, not thank you for the rescue of France in crisis, not for the liberation and restoration of France in defeat, not for reserving France a permanent seat with its big shiny veto on the UNSC, not for the Marshall Plan, not for NATO. No, all that's yesterday and contemporary France is not big on yesterday -- unless it is France calling in favors.

We had in mind a thank you for paying some attention to France.

As Mr. Hedges makes plain above, France had been largely absent from America's notice. We knew France existed, a medium-size country to the east of England. It had some renown among American oenophiles and turophiles. A handful of French authors had a handful of readers here. Holidays in France lent poignance to an American homecoming. The French? Well, the French were a distant people with a reputation for schmaltz, rudeness, bad hygiene, and the high-hat -- a truly curious people, though few Americans had any first-hand experience since the end of WWII. Anyway, much was forgiven the French because of Marie Joseph Paul Yves Roche Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette, not the last great Frenchman but America's first great and truest French friend, rightly admired to this day.

Americans had been ignorant of the visceral dislike of America and Americans that now defines the French character as much as novelty underpants. Of course, Americans were responsible for their inattention to France, but who thought to think that France, a nation that owed much to America, might plot mischief against her most constant ally? The prosecution of UNSCR 1441 disabused Americans of its fond notions of France.

Pave is but one instance of America's new-found and keen interest in France. Here, as long as modica of good manners and relevance are observed, all are invited to comment. Of course Pave does not pretend to be other than what it is, a provocative forum. French correspondents can tell their story, make their best defense of France, get a hearing. France and French comment are not buried on the backpages at Pave.

Alas our French correspondents don't put much effort in their opportunity to address an American audience. The typical argument is a desultory tu quoque, implying proud France only takes her measure from a much larger American yardstick. Offhand we cannot recall a French correspondent ever arguing some larger principle. There is a lot of sneering and name-calling but the witty and withering French insult has yet to make its appearance at Pave. Pretty disappointing performances from a nation of philosophers. But every day, every post, hope is born anew.

Now France has our attention. The French don't seem to like it much.

You are welcome.

Indeed, they would do well to count us as allies - in the never-ending quest to draw all attention to the great and all-powerful France.

Hmm...have I been drinking?

But what they won't say is, Thank you.

Who's "they", Damian? All of France, or just your pick-and-choose, narrow-minded view of it?

M. Zmx,

Again, you are a careless skimmer and your command of English is apparently less than you think. Let me take you through the paces of basic grammar that will give you the answer you seek.

But what they won't say is, Thank you.

This follows on the paragraph that establishes the antecedent "they" in its very first line: Our French correspondents...

Why, M. Zmx, the "they" is you. It is you who visits Pave as our guest, who complains and insults, it is you who makes hasty and lame posts, and it is you who is wholly representative of the shabby forensic quality and sorry wit of our French correspondents' posts.

Pave holds out no hope for a Thank You from the whole of France.

Had you actually read the post all this might have been clear to you without having to solicit my assistance.

Regards,
DGB

Even a real leftie at the NY Times, Maureen Dowd, says she is boycotting french products.

your command of English is apparently less than you think

Do you think I care? Trust me, your "knowledge" of France wrapped in pompous rethoric and tired clichés is also less than you think.

who complains and insults

Isn't it what Pave is all about? What is the premise of this website except insulting, generalizing, picking, choosing and preaching to the choir? It's called bigotry, since you don't seem to care for the term "racism".

and it is you who is wholly representative of the shabby forensic quality and sorry wit of our French correspondents' posts.

I would say that 95% of your 5-10 "fans" represent the crème de la crème of the typical American idiot, stereotyped in all corners of the world, (thank God for the other Americans). Many of your topics don't get any feedback anyway, so why not just rely on the old clichés ("bad hygene", "rudeness" etc, etc...)? Surely, it would less boring than your pseudo-intellectual rants and amuse them a lot more. You ask French posters to avoid name-calling, which is a little like the Aryan Nation website asking African-American posters to argue their views in a calmly manner.

So "Thanks" for what? WW2? I said thanks back in June if you read my post, and I meant it. Marshall Plan? OK thanks, although anyone knows the benefit was mutual. NATO? there was no US troops in France since 1961 but thank you, thank you, thank you.

I've been to the Normandy cemetary on many occasions, I don't particularely boycott US goods, I have many American friends, in France and in the US. Unlike you, I honestly do not, or very rarely hear obsessive ("visceral" as only you could describe it) anti-Americanism among my circle of friends and family. Or is it a product of my imagination? Does it ever occur to you that, despite our row over Irak, "visceral anti-Americanism" is not in most people's mind? Do you read the UK media? It's more "visceral" than the French media, I assure you.

No Damian, no matter how many "thanks" you want, it's not what really interest you or you wouldn't be here preaching to the choir. You wrap yourself in the flag and point the finger at others (French-bashing is certainly safer than Arab-bashing nowadays), nuturing your little following no matter how mindless most of it is. You're a sad, pathetic bunch. Have fun.

M. Zmx,

How heartening to read what a goodly fellow you are. It is plain that there are few who do not come up woefully short against the Zoomerx yardstick.

As for the distinction between racism and bigotry, you come late to the game as I've instructed Frenchies in the difference long ago. It may be more personally rewarding for you to nail the distinction between provocation and insult.

How distressing to see you cannot do other than play to type, which if you were a careful reader, you would see that is all this post describes. And though Pave openly advertises itself as a provocative site, alas, this seems to constantly surprise and discomfort you. Because political discursus is clearly not your strength, perhaps you will want to consider something less demanding, perhaps solitaire.

As for my efforts, I've no illusions about their appeal. I simply write my best, present the facts as I find them, and pointedly challenge an effete opposition. Perhaps were the opposition's responses more persuasive, more to point, more coherent, employed established facts, or even mildly clever, perhaps I would have the spur to better my writings. That you personally find my posts lacking is not an opinion I am prepared or capable of amending.

But here you are answering my post by pointing out that my posts go unanswered. And yet it is you who comes to me, not me to you. And you do so with admirable regularity. I offer you the same advice that is given all faint-hearted dull-witted correspondents:

In one of either of your hands is a mouse, use this to close your browser or click yourself elsewhere. Good-bye.

Of course, don't get me wrong, it is humbling having a superior being poking around in the threads. Or perhaps you are only a clown looking for his audience.

Je vous prie de croire, M. Zmx, en nos sentiments dévoués,
DGB

Asking for thanks Damian?

after all, why not? this post was not so bad, may be one ammong your best but, a bit late:
Because the comment has already published since while and a drawing says more than long sentences

Now, thinking twice, I must admit I owe you some thanks:
Not for "paying attention", I would rather thank you to forget us for a while "Ca nous ferait des vaccances" ;D
The thanks would be for:
-Good pieces of laugh
-Curiosity, I would never have guessed it was possible to believe some stunning crap if you did not wrote it.
-Giving us an opposite point of view about almost everything and it's usefull to get a better idea about these things, with two eyes we have better view than with one.

As well, in several heads, there are more ideas than just in one. OK, for a given amount of ideas more American heads are necessary than average. So what? you are 290 Millions USAmericans, we are 60 Millions French. this make an fair evenly balanced IQ distribution. (you can however try to push things on your favor eating this).

So, from both side of the Atlantic, we can thank the providence is n't it ?

Thanks for your attention,
Pierre

M. Pierre,

A fair response.

Alas, I do not share your admiration for M. Plantu, who draws badly, is unfunny, and has no editorial depth. Damining qualities in an editorial cartoonist.

I do take issue with your arithmetic on idea distribution across aggregates, which should actually read something like the hundred millions of ideas rattling around in American heads, in aggregate, contrasted to la pensée unique that is fashionably fitted in -- but overcrowds -- French heads, in aggregate.

As for the equipoise of IQ, well, if you say the French are twice as smart, I will not contest your claim. I would only remark the astonishing modesty of you and your compeers never to put such an advantage on display.

Regards,
DGB

As I'm for this year living abroad - and I will not comment today on the differencies between living in Paris,France and Toronto,Ontario - it's nice to find most of information from internet resources and other views on international issues.

Yet I try to keep in touch with France and what is said about the rest of the world in my country. And I found this today, which would be an interesting post to comment on pavefrance about the state of journalism in France. (other links about this affair - alas, all in French- here(from radio Europe 1) and here)

I will continue to read pavefrance and to be upset almost every time I read something I dislike said about my country. So thank you Damian for upsetting me. I just have to avoid commenting each time I know I have nothing to say but "You morons! I don't like you!" :)

M. Goldsoundz,

Fair response.

Thanks for the links. We'll see what we can manage.

We appreciate your not posting when you've nothing to say. If only your compeers were as smart.

May we suggest a change in your formulary for reproaching Pave to something like:

I do not share or care for your expressed opinion.

-- OR (Better!) --

I do not agree with your expressed opinion, but I am helpless to refute the underlying facts. Although upset, I will not resort to pettiness or name-calling, as my countrymen are already preparing to swarm this thread and throw hissy fits, the likes of which only the French can achieve. Their tears, their high-octave whines and girly shrieks will stunt the growth of your children's children's children. Their rudeness will astonish you, then, somehow, devastate you. At least that's the game plan. So let me respond by simply saying: France ROCKS! Or she would if so many things weren't hopelessly screwed up here. Or if it were still the 18th century.

Just a suggestion.

Bon voyage, safe trip,
DGB

All depends what you are seeing as "pensee unique". If it is the critic toward America, it does not fit because it is not a thought or idea, it is like telling "better to be wealthy and healthy than starving and ill". or "one is tall enough as soon as the feets reach the ground' etc. Simple acknowlegment of facts.

Things become a bit more complicated if you think a bout the various and numerous reasons for the critics. But here you are MUCH more ar risk to fall into the "pensée unique" than we are.

Why ? simple:
You are 290 millions sharing 60 millions reasons to mock the French.
We are 60 millions sharing 290 millions reasons to mock Ameican...
No bigotry or hate there, just the cold sharp reality of demographic data.

About some of these reasons, Goldsoundz make me think that (fortunately) the Pavefrance team, despite big laudable efforts miss load of oportunity to mock us (pffft.. should they know all, I prefere not even think about it)

Pierre

But here you are MUCH more ar risk to fall into the "pensée unique" than we are

Care to provide evidence or logic to support that contention Pierre? Because it's clear to me that the exact opposite is true... Frenchmen are FAR more likely to engage in groupthink, deluding themselves into believing that they have superior insights and knowledge, never offering cogent logic or facts to support those beliefs. You yourself admit that there is little or no transparency with French govt foreign policy. Since relatively few Frenchmen speak english, their information comes from AFP, which is largely French govt controlled/influenced media.. and here. Yes, we have media bias (which is demonstrably leftist) here, but we have a far more diverse range of opinion and thought than can be found in France.

1) According to surveys, 80% of Frenchmen believe we went into Iraq, only/primarily for the oil. Seriously, is this what one would expect from a nation of independent thinkers?

2) US govt-caused-9/11 conspiracy theories are far more widely believed by the French.. more evidence of weak-mindedness

3) Widespread sheep-like willingness among the French population to accept far worse corruption among their leaders (chirac would be indicted if not in office is only 1 example) on a scale that would never be tolerated here in the US. French people express little or no protest when France uses corrupt influence and military action to put its jackboot on the throats of 'former' African colonies or in Polynesia, yet US actions in Iraq are widely assumed in France to make the US the "real" terrorists

4) Irrational reliance on the UN as the premier source of foreign policy legitimacy. I've yet to read any well thought out justification for why the French (and others in W. Europe) hold the UN is such reverence. It's not only the thorough corruptness of the organization, evidenced recently by the oil-for-food scandals ($20+ billion involving the highest UN officials), the repeated findings of large numbers UN troops sexually abusing locals, the election of Libya to chair the UN human rights commission, and the complete inability to stop violence anywhere without US taking the lead: Rwanda, Israel 1967, the incredible UN/French f*ckup involving Srebrenica ..it's a failed, corrupt organization which provides legitimacy to unelected leaders of countries, murderous tyrants, who are hostile to western values of freedom and democracy.

The French who are so proud of their logic, demonstrate time and again that they are nothing but a nation of ignorant, ungrateful fools

One of the fundimental misconceptions the US has about France is that it, like England, was somehow different than Germany because Germany waged war on both France and England. We never imagined that France would fail to realize that it was forced by Germany out of the big power business.

Sometimes I think Damian is buffaloing the lot of us with his unfamiliar vocabulary. The trouble is I am too lazy, to look up words like "Damining". (Could that have been an extra i slipped into damning?)
The potential for a nasty ego bruise is too high for me to call him on it. I'll just sit on the sideline, and let him pick up the triple letter score. I wouldn't relish facing off with Damian in a game of Scrabble, or Texas hold'em.

damin (dăm'ĭn)
v. damined, damining, damins
v. tr.

1. A portmanteau conflating "damn" and "incompetent", thus, to condemn as unqualified.

2. To make a "French" (q.v.) job of it.

v. intr.

To type rapidly without spellcheck.

n. (dă’mĭn)

Street slang for de minimus

DGB

Let's make this one final post about all the things I hate about you guys. Have fun arguing over this, and farewell.

[What followed was a list of 911 things Mr. Cogito puports to hate about "you guys". This list has been deleted. But do not weep. Mr. Cogito had neither the industry nor the wit to compile his own list, and he simply cut-and-pasted somebody else's list, found here.

It also appears Mr. Cogito didn't closely read what he was subscribing to. Among his newly acquired dislikes:

* No public executions

* Weepy white lefties who fail to bust raghead-poster-boy Edward Said for writing, in the last edition of Covering Islam that came out before 9/11, "speculations about the latest conspiracy to blow up buildings, sabotage commercial airliners and poison water supplies [is based on] highly exaggerated stereotyping"

* Defibrillating devices

* Asian students in science and math classes

Needless to say it is a long and conflicted list. What it all means, we couldn't say. But the good news -- it signals the last of Mr. Cogito.

The Management]

Cognito

Did you really post that whole line of crap?
If you did shame on you.
If this is goodbye for you then bon voyage, and don't drive angry.
Keep an eye on the headlines and watch us save the world (while you eat your heart out).

And the French have the nerve to call themselves and take great pride in being...ahem...Cartesian?

Ainsi font, font, font

Les Petites Marionettes

Ainsi font, font, font

Trois petits tours et puis s'en vont.

http://www.songsforteaching.com/french/petitesmarionettes.htm