SAUDI CROWN PRINCE, CHIRAC HOLD PRIVATE LUNCH

Saudi Arabia's crown prince and de facto ruler Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz held private talks with French President Jacques Chirac over lunch, the last day of a two-day official visit to Paris.

Following the hour-long meeting, Abdullah told journalists that "there are absolutely no disagreements between France and Saudi Arabia, on any matters".

For his part, the French president described his lunch with Abdullah as "perfect, as always, given the traditional, long-standing and very strong friendship between Saudi Arabia and France".

You just can't beat Jack for finger-kissing unctuosity:

Chirac himself went to Orly airport south of Paris to greet the Saudi crown prince... Speaking at a [state] dinner for Saudi Arabia's crown prince...Chirac declared: "Under your impetus, the kingdom has undertaken an ambitious programme of transformations to which I'd like to pay homage."

Meanwhile back in transformed Riyadh, this, this, and this. Oh, and this.

"Abdullah told journalists that "there are absolutely no disagreements between France and Saudi Arabia, on any matters"."

I believe this. The Saudis want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet, and the French government's actions certainly appear to agree with them.

Doesn't the Bush administration's alliance with the House of Saud amount to the same thing as the position of the French government, minus the craven public boot licking?

There might be an occasional call for democractic reforms in Saudi Arabia by President Bush or his aides but we mostly seem to turn a blind eye to what goes on in that country because we need their oil and their so-called help in fighting the more radical Islamic nations.

I don't think giving Saudia Arabia a couple of verbal slaps on the wrist gives us the moral authority to criticize the French for fawning over the Saudi government like the spineless worms that they are.

Hassad, I agree with you that we'll never hear Bush & co. use the boot-kissing public fellatio of the Saudis as is so commonplace with the French who so desperately try to preserve the financially profitable status quo of murderous tyranny and oppression... they did it with Saddam, they're doing it with the Saudis, and they continue to do it in their 'former' colonies.

But US actions are an "alliance" with the House of Saud? How does buying their oil which is mixed with others on the world market in anyway add up to an "alliance" or even meaningful support? US actions in Iraq and Afghanistan along with the very public seizures of Saudi "charities" amount to a forceful shot across the bow to the Saudis. No one in or out of US govt believes the Saudis are our friends. The problem is, how to pressure Saudis for reform without creating a collapse in which the Saudi jihadist freaks then fill the power vacuum? No easy answers there. Do you believe spineless corrupt France and/or the UN would be there to do any fighting with their "everything is perfect in Saudi Arabia" tyrants if that scenario took place? of course not

The US shed a lot of blood and treasure so that Iraq can show an alternate model to the Arab sheikdoms and facist states in the heart of the middle east. I'd say we've earned the right to say that we've done a helluva lot more than simply "slap wrists" in pressuring reform in that region. See Libyan capitulation, Lebanese freedom protests and half-ass elections in Saudi as just the beginning of more reform in that part of the world.

Meanwhile, French scum of the earth oppose crackdowns on Hamas while proclaiming that France has "no problem whatsoever" with Saudi tyranny and Saudi support of terrorism. some things never change

Hassad,

We pretend to no moral authority, believing as we do that moral authority resides with God alone, an unimpeachable authority.

Nations serve self-interests.

Our point is the French public fawning over and deep-tonguing of the Crown Prince's nether wink is both phony and ridiculous. Jack knows Mr. Bush, who is serious about pressing democratic reforms, will not have a "perfect" lunch with the Crown Prince. Jack also knows that the Crown Prince's stop-over in Paris is a sideshow. More about shopping than diplomacy.

OBH,

Glad to see you in good form.

Regards all,
DGB

Lou, you're an idiot.

Of course, you and blowhard choose to ignore that the crowned prince will personally invited by Bush at his Texas ranch - his personal home , no such honor for Chirac yet - this week after the French visit. I'll wait for Bush's "boot-kissing" comments (as if Bush never made any regarding the Saudis - oh the hypocrisy) and make sure to post them for you. And never mind that Saudi Arabia gets a slap on the wrist from the US despite being home for the most radical form of anti-Americanism and claiming its own citizens as responsible for the 9/11 tragedy (or was it Eye-rakis ?). Hillarious.

M. Zmx,

I am also glad to see you in good form.

Regards,
DGB

Sorry, don't mean to start silly fight on this blog that is very funny and that I love reading, but this is a sore point for me. I would say it is better to have more faith in the power of democracy. If America were to pull its troops out of Saudi Arabia and let the “jihadists” take control, they would not keep it. All dictatorships eventually fall to the drive all people have for freedom and democracy. It would probably be a long hard struggle for the Saudi people but America itself has had a long hard struggle to attain democracy as well. It might even take hundreds of years but they would do it eventually. Call me an idealist but I think there even hope for France to one day be a democracy!

Is not the interest of America, freedom more than oil or military staging grounds? I think so. Otherwise we must play the same old dirty game of washing our hands of what the Saudis do while pushing for change that can only come incrementally, if at all, from an evil regime that will do everything it can to hold on to power. It just don't sit right.

thanks for the greeting Damian...I've been really busy cleaning my room

Hassad wrote:If America were to pull its troops out of Saudi Arabia and let the “jihadists” take control, they would not keep it. All dictatorships eventually fall

Uh, last I checked America DID already pull all its troops out of Saudi Arabia.. You make a fair point I guess regarding how dictatorships 'eventually' fail, but such dictatorships have a nasty habit of creating and perpetuating human disasters for surprisingly long periods of time, see Saddam, Stalin, N. Korea, Zimbabwe, and Cuba to name a few examples. I suppose if you're not one of those living under the tyranny of such a dictator it's easy to lecture others to just "let them be" and let them 'eventually' sort out their own problems. The problem with that thinking is, when people are oppressed and cannot vent their outrage against their govts such as is the case in Saudi Arabia, sometimes they divert their anger and frustration to other targets, such as Israel and the US.. Didn't 9/11 put to rest the ridiculous notion that we always have the luxury of letting others sort out their own problems? You can't always keep a lid on that sort of built-up anger, can you?

Zoomerx wrote: I'll wait for Bush's "boot-kissing" comments (as if Bush never made any regarding the Saudis - oh the hypocrisy) and make sure to post them for you

Zoomer, you'll be waiting a long time to post then, as you will not find ANY Bush comments about any Saudi leader equivalent to this French beso negro: "there are absolutely no disagreements between France and Saudi Arabia, on any matters" On any matters? Reminds me of Chirac's personal invitation to mass murderer Robert Mugabe, in which Chirac bared his ass wining and dining the bloody dictator and his entire entourage while Mugabe's wife went on a Paris shopping spree.. while Mugabe's people starve back home. France of course, is so deeply corrupt and cynical, that she is perfectly willing to compromise anyone or anything which doesn't belong to her...whether selling out the Iraqi people, Zimbabweans, Rwandans, Sudanese, or any other of "those people" to further corrupt French ambitions. It's the French way, it's who they are

Seriously, you think Bush will lecture the Prince over human rights when he receives him in his cozy home in Texas? The longtime relashionship between the Bush family and the royal Saudis is well-known, don't kid yourself Blowhard, you know it. Once again, a classic case of playing the ostrich (sp?) while blaming France, who's far behind the US in arm sales to the Saudi kingdom (and Pakistan), by the way. On a side note, Saudi Arabia's prince told Le Monde that his relashionship with France and the US is exactly on the same level, so I'm afraid we're on the same boat on this one, whether Pave likes it or not.

As for Mugabe, at least you have a point although protests were held in Paris during his visit and the French media generally regards him for what he is.

I'll grant you that pre-9/11, the Bushes as well as a number of retired politicians on the Saudi payroll have had too-close ties with the Saudis. They looked the other way for too long. 9/11 changed that completely. No matter how much you pretend otherwise, Bush has and will continue to ratchet up the pressure regarding royal Saudi mafia funding of radical mosques.. US actions in Iraq were a big finger shoved in the eye of the Saudi royal family who tried to pressure Bush not to invade.. and as Damian's linked article pointed out, putting the Saudis on the hot seat pressuring them on democratic reforms is the main priority of the Prince's visit to Crawford. Bush will work with the Saudi royal family only to the extent that the Saudi royal family cooperates in moving democracy forward and in eliminating the funding/support of radical mosques. In other words, no French style ass kissing

Bush pressure and Iraqi freedoms may not break the royal Saudi power grip right away, but until the funding of the radical mosques dries up and there are free, regular elections in Saudi arabia, you will never hear Bush saying that "everything is perfect and rosy", and that is an important distinction between France and the US, whether zoomer admits it or not

Setting up an open democracy on the Saudi border does a lot more to undermine the Saudi princes than back slapping does to support them. Even Hassad's professed faith in democracy stems from successes in Afghanistan and Iraq, however loathe he is to admit it.

What has Chirac done to undermine them?

And, good to see you back Zoomer.

While you lecture France on its relationship with the Saudis, president George W. Bush walks hand-in-hand with Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah (R) after the Crown Prince was welcomed to Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, April 25, 2005.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050425/ids_photos_wl/r1876771878.jpg

Well, yes, Jeff, we do.

But then you've not really read the post. What we "lecture" the French on is declaring "absolutely no disagreements between France and Saudi Arabia". Elsewhere Jack makes a big noise about "we must fight without mercy against...all those who proclaim the inequality of men." That would appear to be a sizable point of disagreement. That is, if Jack were sincere. Which speaks to the point of our post.

Now Mr. Bush may walk "hand-in-hand" with the crown prince, but please report back when he pronounces everything "perfect, as always" with Saudi Arabia.

DGB