We could say to those [rogue states]: "Watch out, if you try to carry out your threats we will destroy you before you know what’s hit you."

French Defense Minister and Cowboy Michèle Alliot-Marie, July 5, 2004

[Even though Iran was resuming sensitive nuclear activities] we have to persevere because the day when Iran will be totally closed in we will no longer know what's going on.

French Defense Minister and Tea Party Hostess Michèle Alliot-Marie, January 16, 2006

If [the Iranians] isolate themselves, it will be very serious for them.

French Foreign Minister and Scold Philippe Douste-Blazy, February 6, 2006

It's very simple: no civilian nuclear programme can explain Iran's nuclear programme. Therefore it's a clandestine military nuclear programme.

French Foreign Sobriety Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy, February 16, 2006

Our aim has been political, not at all punitive. ... The hand is being held out, negotiations are possible.

French Foreign Sweetheart Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy, March 10, 2006

Will the Iranians come round and take up France's welcoming hand? Iran sends a signal.

WE'RE IN NUCLEAR CLUB, BOASTS IRAN

April 12, 2006 (Telegraph) - Iran declared yesterday that it had mastered the means of enriching uranium, boasting that "our enemies cannot do a damned thing" to stop its nuclear ambitions.

Mr Ahmadinejad made the "historic" announcement in a televised speech as his audience chanted: "Death to America."

President George W Bush said on Monday: "We do not want the Iranians to have a nuclear weapon, the capacity to make a nuclear weapon or the knowledge about how to make a nuclear weapon."

France finds this worrying.

IRAN NUCLEAR CLAIM 'STEP IN WRONG DIRECTION': FRANCE

PARIS April 12, 2006 (AFP) - The French government on Wednesday described Iran's claim to have enriched uranium on its own as a "step in the wrong direction".

"We are speaking from the perspective of a diplomatic settlement to this affair. We call on Iran to respect its obligations and comply with the demands of the IAEA (UN atomic watchdog) and the UN Security Council," said government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope.

"From that viewpoint, these recent declarations are rather a step in the wrong direction."

"The announcement by the Iranian authorities of the activation of 164 centrifuges is worrying," Douste-Blazy said in a statement.

There is a hint the foreign ministry is perhaps astonished. The foreign minister himself is reported to be gobsmacked and less than 50% optimistic. This is a new and worrying low, down from his recent 66% optimism, the minimum needed to support the French welcoming hand in mid-air. The minister has not yet ordered the welcoming hand to be pocketed in the trousers of the ministry, but he has authorized it be lowered and given a manicure.

Iran resends the signal.

OUR NUCLEAR DRIVE IS UNSTOPPABLE, SAYS DEFIANT IRAN

April 13, 2006 (Telegraph) - Iran yesterday defied international outcry and a threat of sanctions by announcing that it would push ahead with plans for a huge underground uranium enrichment plant with tens of thousands of high-speed centrifuges.

Iran re-resends the signal.

NUCLEAR CHIEF'S IRAN TRIP SEEMS DOOMED TO FAIL

April 14, 2006 (Telegraph) - [US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice] said: "There is no doubt that Iran continues to defy the will of the international community. When the Security Council reconvenes, there will have to be some consequence for that action."

Her remarks were in response to Iran declaring yesterday that its nuclear programme was "non-negotiable" - a direct rebuff to Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He was in Teheran to urge Iran's leaders to comply with a Security Council demand that it suspend its uranium enrichment and explain several mysteries about its nuclear programme.

"I am going to discuss bringing Iran in line with the request of the international community, to take confidence-building measures," he said in the Iranian capital. But his mission seemed doomed before it began, as Iran's rulers grew increasingly defiant.

Hours before Mr ElBaradei arrived [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] told a rally: "The Iranian nation's right to nuclear energy is non-negotiable and no one can ever force us to back down an inch from the path that we are currently treading. Our answer to those who are angry about Iran obtaining the full nuclear cycle is one phrase. We say, 'Be angry and die of this anger.'"

Mr. Ahmadinejad seems pretty clear on the point. As do Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice. Exactly what is mystifying the French and Europeans and Mr. ElBaradei?

PFFT (What is this?): Chucklehead diplomacy 5 | Making the world safe 0 | Making the world safe for France 0 | Rayonnement français 0

Bonjour,

LES GENERAUX US LE DISENT IRAK: VILLEPIN et LA FRANCE AVAIENT RAISON !!!
C'est maintenant TOUTE l'armée US qui donne raison à la France.Après la rétraction du fanatique Walter Jones , c'est l' armée US dans son entier qui donne raison à la France.
A quand les excuses de Bush à la France ??
Nous les attendons…
A moins qu' il ne reste aux USA que deux seuls contradicteurs envers la France ?
Bush et….Andy !!

Good luck for your country in Irak !!

Bonjour,

C'est maintenant TOUTE l'armée US qui donne raison à la France

There are over 9,000 Generals (active and retired) in the US Army. 5 are making comments against Rummy.

5 out of 9,000. Hardly proof of anything. Of course the fact that this very small group is in lock step with the majority of the much biased press, one can understand why there is so much excitement over what the Generals say.

Now, M.ABAY please get down to the other thread and please answer my questions about the French and the CPE. Get off of your one trick pony and discuss something else for a second. Thanks.

Bonjour,

Les généraux d'active ne peuvent bien sûr pas s'exprimer !.
Et pourtant c'est sans doute eux qui sont le plus enclin à reconnaître la justesse de la position de la France.Alors maintenant vous allez déclarer la guerre à l ' Iran ?
Vous êtes devenu complètement fous les Yankees !
Vous feriez bien de relire les Grecs et d ' étudier le concept d' hubrys…
Le CPE ? il est retiré :la crise est finie …
Mais vous vous allez vous ,les yankees, vous enfoncer dans le délire le plus complet ! ce qu' il y a de plus grave ce que vous allez mettre le Monde à feu et à sang…
Quand on voit la tête de caractérielle de la ci-devant Condoleezza on peut craindre le pire…

Good luck for your country in Irak !

Bonjour,

Les généraux d'active ne peuvent bien sûr pas s'exprimer !

Wrong, again, my friend. Gen. Zinni (who opposed the war from the start anyway) is retired. The other Generals are all active duty.

Le CPE ? il est retiré :la crise est finie …
Ah, heck, pal, your answer was trash to my CPE questions. In fact, you had no answers. Just more Iraq babble. I’m not sure you French are as smart as you say you are. :)

Vous feriez bien de relire les Grecs et d ' étudier le concept d' hubrys…

Well, amigo, you are nothing if not predictible. I wondered how long it would be before some enterprising Frenchman came up with a Greek Tragedy reference to Iraq. And guess who won the prize? Hint: His initials are ABAY.

So, do you really know about Greek Tragedy and Greek Comedy, or are you just reciting something you read in one of your “spin sheets”? Because the Greek Classics are one of my favorites, and, I am very well versed in them.

That said, I’m going to assume that your, well, instruction to us to learn about hubris is in reference to the play The Persians by Aeschylus. It is usually the play to which everyone of your ilk points to as being so very prophetic about the abuses of Empire, pride and overreaching power. “See, See, Bush is just like Xerxes!!, goes the usual refrain from the chorus. (For those who do not know, Xerxes is the tragic hero of the play who returns from the Greek-Persian wars, defeated and not realizing his own hubris was the cause of his defeat. See the battle of Salamis if you are not familiar with this play—some even say that if the Persians had not lost this battle, all of Europe would have become part of the Persian Empire. Well, that may come to pass soon, anyway!)

However, M. ABAY, there is another Greek classic that I like. It’s entitled The Frogs, by Aristophanes. (I could make a joke here about French/frogs, but what would be the point?) In this play, Aristophanes has Aeschylus say “I produced The Persians to teach the Athenians always to desire victory over their enemy.” Pride? Empire? No, not at all.

So, you ask, how do frogs get into the act? They are Aristophane’s comic chorus, croaking like the noisy little plebeians at the theater, hooting the performance. Some might say just like the French... but, of course, not me:).

M. AB/AY,

You know as little about Greek drama as you do about, well, everything else on which you post. One can read a great deal of Greek drama and never encounter hubris as a dramatic device. It is not hubris that governs the Choephori, it is conflicted obligations of filial piety. In Medea it is the derangement of jealousy. In Hippolytus it is unnatural appetite. In the Bacchae it is impious curiousity. Hubris is only one failing among many. The dramatic pivot in Greek tragedy is hamartia, or the tragic flaw. The thing overdone, the over-reach, the failing that undoes the protagonist. And on the subject of over-reach, we suggest you go and actually read the Greeks instead of pretending from your crib notes.

Andy,

Surely by now you must realize M. AB/AY is a crank. He visits Pave to alleviate some personal splenic disorder. Do you think he can be engaged beyond his limited rant? M. AB/AY enjoys playing the clown with his over-the-top off-topic French posts. He has no intention of putting his pique at risk by arguing his points. He is here to rant. We do not delete his dopey posts because he is a fitting exhibit of the contemporary French chauvinist, the franchouille, of sorry France herself.

That said, you may have noticed that he has slipped up in this thread. He unwittingly admits to France in crisis by claiming that the crisis has passed. That's definitely off-message from Cloud-cuckoo-land France (a theme M. AB/AY hit on without, we are certain, ever having read The Birds).

Regards all,
DGB

Bonjour,

Vous n'allez pas m'apprendre MA culture européenne.Puisqu' on est dans le "name dropping", je ne vois pas le rapport entre les "Grenouilles" et les Français mais je vois bien , par exemple , le rapport entre l 'obsession hypocrite de la Loi chez les Yankees et les grotesques intervenants des "Guêpes" .
Je suis professeur de mathématiques , mais je crois assez bien connaître la littérature gréco-latine.
N' empêche puisque êtes un Yankee exceptionnel qui aime mieux la culture européenne que les pauvres acquis de la culture US , relisez Hérodote pour l' hubrys et ne comparez pas Bush avec Xerxes c'est plutôt Sardanapale…
Pour comprendre l ' impérialisme US ,relisez la "Vie d'Agricola" ,magistral non ?
" Raptor orbis , ladrones gentium" ,les Yanks décrits 2000 ans à l' avance !!!.Etonnant non ?

Allez je vais changer ma devise:

"Ubi Yankees solitudinem faciunt , pacem appellant"

Bonjour,

", je ne vois pas le rapport entre les "Grenouilles" et les Français mais je vois bien

from word-detective.com:
“Originally (around 1330), 'Frog' was applied by Britons to almost any group they found objectionable, and was aimed at both Jesuits and the Dutch before it was decided in the late 18th century that the French, with whom England was then at war, were the real 'frogs.'”
Si quis est qui dictum in se inclementius
Existimavit esse, sic existimet.

So, the my pun was the play by Aristophanes called “The Frogs”, and your constant refrain “Good luck in Irak” as the “croaking” of the comic chorus. Difficile est satiram non scribere:)

Je suis professeur de mathématiques
Very nice! My grandfather was Dean of Engineering at a university here and my other grandfather was a professor of German at the same university. So from now on: Nunc “Professor” est nomen te. Sat sapienti?

Pour comprendre l ' impérialisme US ,relisez la "Vie d'Agricola" ,magistral non?
"Raptor orbis , ladrones gentium" ,les Yanks décrits 2000 ans à l' avance !!!.Etonnant non?
I assume, Professor, that this is in reference to Galgacus’ speech, no? (30).
“Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land they rifle the deep. […..] If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious…..they give the lying name of empire.”
Well, Professor, with all due respect, qui vult decipi, decipiatur. Your comment is akin to “War for Oil”. No, I do not believe this.
(In leafing through my copy of “Tacitus” I see there is much I have forgotten about “Agricola”. I will take it and re-read it on the Metro tomorrow.)

“Ubi Yankees solitudinem faciunt, pacem appealing”
To this, Professor, I answer: Nunquam libertas gratior extat, quam sub rege pio. That would be Bush! :)

Bonjour,

D'accord "Frogs"="Grenouilles".Mais alors:
"Guêpes"="Wasps"=White Anglo-Saxon Protestant...
Aristophane montre très bien où conduit la chicane arrogante et mensongère dont sont atteint les wasps aujourd'hui…
Quand à Bush au lieu de continuer à suivre ses c….. ,vous feriez mieux de vous fier a ce que vous dit la France et de Villepin comme le fait dorénavant le représentant Jones.
Parce que le grossier mensonge des "armes de destructions massives" vous a fait perdre toute crédibilité pour un peuple "qui déteste le mensonge"…
(C'est ce que prétendait Nicole Bacharan ,une fanatique pro-yankee de chez nous)

"Iste autem ineptus famam secutus est ,cujus auctoritate nihil est vilius"

Vous êtes bien l'ineptus de ce "cher" Bush et vous semblez aimer cela…

Good luck for your contry in Irak